Response from my MP (SNP)

[frogintheTyne]

I wrote to my MP in October and have just received this reply.

Thank you for contacting me regarding the Gender Recognition Act and my apologies for not responding sooner however, I'm sure you can appreciate how busy it is at the moment in Westminster.

The Scottish Government ran a consultation earlier this year on a review of the Gender Recognition Act 2004.
A lot of misinformation has been spread about what ‘self-identification’ could entail – we must ensure that any debate about how best to move forward with this is well informed. There were over 15,000 responses to the consultation, and the majority of respondents agreed with the introduction of a self-declaratory system for legal gender recognition, as well as agreeing that people aged 16 and 17 should be able to obtain legal recognition of their acquired gender using self-declaration. The Scottish Government have said this will feed into work to bring forward legislation on gender recognition in the next legislative programme.

A lot of misinformation has been spread about what ‘self-identification’ could entail – we must ensure that any debate about how best to move forward with this is well informed. ‘Self-identification’ would not just mean people could just identify as a gender whenever they want, or for malicious or mischievous reasons – it would be a crime to ‘self-identify’ for any reason other than genuinely feeling that you want to identify/live as that gender.

The Scottish Trans Alliance have explained “When we describe the self-declaration process, it still requires people to sign and have witness to statutory declaration [meaning breaking it would amount to perjury], so it’s not as simple as literally just announcing into the void what they identify as and getting a new birth certificate.”
It is deeply concerning and unhelpful that some of the debate around this has moved into the territory of transphobia.

The concerns of both trans rights and women’s rights groups must both be taken into account – but we want to avoid a heavily polarised debate and all views must be expressed in a way that doesn’t discriminate or prejudice against others. Rape Crisis Scotland, Scottish Women’s Aid, Zero Tolerance, Engender, Equate Scotland, Close the Gap and the Women 5050 Campaign have come out in public support of the proposed changes.

As a party the SNP prides itself on championing both women’s rights and the rights of the LGBTI community, trans and non-binary individuals. The key priority is to ensure peaceful, compassionate and empathetic dialogue which respect the rights of all individuals to live a life of dignity free from discrimination.

Scotland’s same-sex marriage legislation is seen as some of the most progressive equal marriage laws in the world because of provisions on gender identity and gender reassignment equality. We need to build on this to do more to progress on equality for trans people.

The SNP want to see the UK Government to allow non-binary people to record their gender as ‘X’ on passports and all other UK-wide records and identity documents. SNP MPs at Westminster are also calling on the UK government to amend the Equality Act 2010 to ensure that all trans and non-binary people are covered by discrimination protections. We will also press for intersex people and organisations to be fully consulted by the UK government on changes to the law and policy to introduce effective protections for intersex people’s human rights.

I hope this response has been useful and if I can be of any further assistance, please do not hesitate to contact me.

There was a cut and paste repeated first paragraph which I've deleted.

Not surprised by this response . Not voting SNP again.

Not surprised here either!

Reinforces my decision to cancel my SNP membership, and I will also not be voting for them again, in any election.

Who is there in Scotland speaking for women now? 😕

I've just emailed SNP to cancel my membership too.

I've been an SNP supporter all my life. :(

Where now?

A lot of misinformation has been spread about what ‘self-identification’ could entail – we must ensure that any debate about how best to move forward with this is well informed.

We will achieve this by only listening to those in favour of self-ID and pretending all dissenting voices are merely ignorant, despite the evidence that many of them are educated, rational and well-informed. They’re mostly women, so we look forward to laughing at them when they suffer the inevitable results of our ignorant (but definitively progressive - look at us, aren’t we just SO cool) policies.

‘Self-identification’ would not just mean people could just identify as a gender whenever they want, or for malicious or mischievous reasons – it would be a crime to ‘self-identify’ for any reason other than genuinely feeling that you want to identify/live as that gender.

How does he plan to figure it out with Karen White then? Did White identify maliciously or 'mischieviously' (seriously? It's just a bit naughty is it to abuse women?) to access women victims? Or is White as validly trans as anyone else, accessed women's spaces perfectly legally under current legislation, and just happened to rape several and sexually assault others, all of whom were women locked up with White with no option of avoiding them?

No one is going to check who walks in to toilets and changing rooms, there will be no identification, so functionally any male entering a woman's space has identified by the act of walking in. This makes the only way to assess if someone walked in with malicious intent to harm women is when a woman has been harmed. And don't anybody kid themselves the police will come running when an assault happens, what is it in the UK? 7% prosecution rate for rapes? With less than 50% reported?

Would he like to put a number on how many 'acceptable' assaults, rapes, harassment, voyeuristic crimes should be sucked up by women in pursuit of making less than 1% of men happy? What percentage of vulnerable women (female ones) who cannot access any provision that contains someone born male, is ok to shut out of public life?

You can call it transphobia or anything else you want, women are not fucking canaries and this is fucking insanity from someone who ought to make it their business to know what they're talking about.

Have a read of this thread:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3444180-Defining-sex-in-the-Scottish-Census

This: www.parliament.scot/parliamentarybusiness/report.aspx?r=11836

And this:

www.parliament.scot/S5_European/Meeting%20Papers/20181210CTEEAPublicPapers.pdf (triggers download)

Before you give up all hope.

A lot of misinformation has been spread about what ‘self-identification’ could entail

The tedious, pompous superiority in the endless assumption that not agreeing is because you're not yet sufficiently educated yet is also not one to win hearts and minds.

If I educate this twit sufficiently will he convert to Catholicism, believe in Brexit and feed the fairies at the bottom of my garden? Since obviously any other opinions or beliefs of his own he may hold are merely ignorance to be corrected.

I had received equally batshit replies from my MP, but when I met them in person and outlined my specific concerns they actually got it. Please, if you have the time, set up a meeting, it’s only 15 minutes but you can pack a lot in-Women’s Place & Fair Play for Women have guidance.
Often it’s not the MP writing these replies, it’s a junior, towing the party line.

How does he plan to figure it out with Karen White then? Did White identify maliciously or 'mischieviously

It was subsequently considered a false declaration of being trans and would amount to perjury under this MPs understanding, but it simply shows the lack of objectivity in the whole system. How do you prove genuinely trans (if there is such a thing as 'genuine' from those who are not.

SNP have swallowed the trans narrative hook line and sinker and have for quite a few years now.

it would be a crime to ‘self-identify’ for any reason other than genuinely feeling that you want to identify/live as that gender.

So they propose to legislate - and, by extension, criminalise - feelings?

Email back, and say something along the lines of :

‘My concerns are: (blah blah.) examples already occurred are (blah, karen white, etc) in the event of a serious case review you will have been warned of, and dismissed, these potential effects of allowing self ID.

Copy in absolutely everyone relevant.

Blah, yours in utter frustration sincerely etc

Calm down dears and stop being transphobic. It’s ok it will be a crime to self identify without really meaning it.

I’m sure that will give Nicola Huntley, Karen White pause for thought and make them think twice.

So, it would be a crime for a person to self-ID if they didn't have genuine feelingz. Would women (if they were brave enough) be allowed to challenge males in female spaces or would that be a hate crime? Or is it a case of be kind and respectful (to white males)/put up and shut up, women?

Far as I remember it's a document you sign, in front of a solicitor?
No one ever in the history of the world has ever lied to a solicitor?
Pretty sure they are lied to every day.
So how does the solicitor know if it's a malicious intent or honest truth when the person in front of them signs a form?
Who is going to prosecute for "perjury" as it's not even signed in front of a judge (which would make it perjury).

Massive holes in all of that response.
Just so you all know, should this come in, I will be changing my gender every two months, I will be using all 89? 92? 106? Genders on a rotating basis.

Out of curiosity, how does one prove which feelz are genuine and which are not. Is there a standard legal/physical/scientifically proven test to establish the sincerity of self identifying feelings of a person who said they felt like a woman? If not, how to they plan to prove/criminalise those whose feelings may be perjurious? its fucking bullshit

‘Self-identification’ would not just mean people could just identify as a gender whenever they want, or for malicious or mischievous reasons – it would be a crime to ‘self-identify’ for any reason other than genuinely feeling that you want to identify/live as that gender.

Apart from the obvious response to this bit of fatuous nonsense, is it permanent, then? Of course it's not - you can dip in and out of it as you fancy and as many times as you like, can't you?

File that with 'If you get assaulted in the changing rooms, you can call the police" in your new file entitled 'Safeguarding is now redundant'.

If not, how to they plan to prove/criminalise those whose feelings may be perjurious?

Well obviously, once it's conclusively proved that you've been raped or that you're dead, they'll start to think about whether the particular person who did it may have been being mischievous or malicious in their identification and use of your space. And if they were telling porkies there will be Much Tutting. And that will be Justice.

In this weird world they seem to live in, where women don't rise up in a body and say don't be so fucking ridiculous, and posses 51% of the vote.

My SNP MP didn't bother his arse replying. They're held too tightly, I'm and old SNP supporter, but not anymore. Who did you write too?

A lot of misinformation has been spread about what ‘self-identification’ could entail

Sounds like the MP is fairly clued up on your campaigning tactics.

If the Scottish MPs get to vote on this matter at all, it will be for the GRA changes in England and Wales. It's a devolved matter so we all really should concentrate on making appointments to see our MSPs who will be voting in due course on the legal changes proposed for Scotland.

As ItsAllGoingToBeFine said up thread, don't give up hope yet! The Committee looking at the census amendment is looking promising.

Not many MSPs will waver from the party line in emails but you may be pleasantly surprised if you sit down with them to have a chat about the Equality Act.

I cancelled my membership too over this.

The letter felt like a real slap down, but you are right, I can focus efforts on my MSPs.

Have given myself a shake and will keep on keeping on.

Thanks all.

What is the next evidence session going to be about?

Thanks Cronexx