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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

More Brighton trans stuff

21 replies

Hullabalooo · 12/12/2018 09:49

Arrrggggh!

Hi All

The Council has produced a statement which expresses our solidarity with the trans community. This is a collective statement which has been developed alongside key partners who are represented on our Equality and Inclusion Partnership (EquIP) group.

Please find the statement below:

www.brighton-hove.gov.uk/content/press-release/transgender-day-remembrance

Eric has also created the attached image of the content that can be shared by email (alongside link back to the main statement on our website).

Please do share this widely to get the word out there – we hope it will mean a lot to the community.

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Procrastinator1 · 13/12/2018 09:36

Depressing to see what organisations support this statement
Brighton & Hove City Council
Brighton and Hove Clinical Commissioning Group (CCG)
Brighton and Sussex University Hospitals NHS Trust
East Sussex Fire & Rescue Service
Sussex Police
University of Brighton

Since when has it been acceptable for the police to tell us what can be debated?

Hullabalooo · 13/12/2018 10:31

Exactly! Its not on.

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FamilyOfAliens · 13/12/2018 10:34

I got as far as “live authentically” and had to go and read the bible for a bit of light relief Grin

R0wantrees · 13/12/2018 16:42

"Brighton & Hove is recognised as a beacon for LGBTQ+ communities and a welcoming city where we are able to be true to ourselves, to live authentically and celebrate the strength that real diversity brings to us as a city.

We stand firmly alongside our trans friends, family, colleagues, students, customers, to defend their right for full inclusion and trans equality.

We recognise the challenges and increasing hostility directed at the trans and non-binary community. We are proud to celebrate our city’s diversity and offer support and solidarity.

Everyone deserves to be valued and treated with respect. That is not open to debate. Trans lives are not a debate.

In Brighton & Hove we are proud to come out for trans equality."

Hmm
VickyEadie · 13/12/2018 16:51

Everyone deserves to be valued and treated with respect.

Correct. I wager that there's not a single GC woman who wouldn't support that 100%

And it includes women - but we are not being "valued and treated with respect", are we? Our views, privacy, safety and right to speak are being trashed.

KayM2 · 13/12/2018 17:02

What is the problem with this document?

As long as Brighton Council are as keen to put out statements on the fact ( and I think it IS a fact) that roughly 25% of UK deaths through murder or manslaughter are those of women , through domestic violence. Now that is a much bigger , and much more important issue.

But to object to that statement of itself ,( unless on the grounds of unnecessary expense, where I would 100% agree) seems partisan .

R0wantrees · 13/12/2018 17:08

Its a partisan statement Kay

The hostility exhibited by some in the trans and non-binary community in Brighton towards WPUK, Professor Kathleen Stock, women asking questions of the trans-ideology and trying to discuss changes in the law etc has been well-documented.

gendercritter · 13/12/2018 18:11

Even a year ago I'd have thought it was a great statement. It isn't. It's essentially aggressive. None of us here want trans people to come to harm but it is signalling that you have to forcibly swallow a lie to not be targeted in Brighton, whatever harm it does to you.

StarsAndWater · 13/12/2018 18:48

But to object to that statement of itself ,( unless on the grounds of unnecessary expense, where I would 100% agree) seems partisan

It is partisan. The majority of so-called 'transphobia' right now is women wanting a say in whether their sex-based rights are removed or women not wanting to be categorised into a 'cis' gender stereotype by default, or simply stating they have the right to same sex attraction.
This statement- and the one on the Scottish govt Twitter acct- reminds me of nothing more than those people pushing the 'All lives matter' slogan. Of course, all lives matter and on the surface, it's an obvious thing to support.
It's when you look further at the current debate and activism behind it, you realise that it's about dismissing the oppression faced by certain groups as not relevant and trying to get them to shut up about their very real experiences.

NotANotMan · 13/12/2018 18:59

Eric Page's role in harassing WPUK venue in Brighton was completely unprofessional and outrageous. BHCC specifically Eric Page and Anna Spragg have caused direct harm to women through their suppressing of women's capacity to meet and talk and the promotion of the heinous trans tool kit.

Ereshkigal · 13/12/2018 19:20

It's when you look further at the current debate and activism behind it, you realise that it's about dismissing the oppression faced by certain groups as not relevant and trying to get them to shut up about their very real experiences.

Come on Kay, I'm sure you can see that. You spend a lot of time here. It's what we talk about all the time.

Bubonicpanic · 13/12/2018 21:01

Trans lives are not a debate means that women have no right to consent.

Unless you think they are getting at something else? They are not, they are telling us they refuse to accept material reality and no-one else is permitted to. And the police agree. Dickheads.

Ereshkigal · 13/12/2018 21:04

Exactly.

Hullabalooo · 16/12/2018 23:16

I don't even know who to complain to as its so all encompassing!

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Needmoresleep · 16/12/2018 23:25

Note that Sussex Uni is not on the list. They surely would been asked.

Perhaps they are showing some caution aware that the competing needs of different groups will generate debate. You cant just duck of it by saying 'all lives matter'.

Procrastinator1 · 16/12/2018 23:47

It's exhausting isn't it.

ChattyLion · 17/12/2018 07:33

The majority of so-called 'transphobia' right now is women wanting a say in whether their sex-based rights are removed or women not wanting to be categorised into a 'cis' gender stereotype by default, or simply stating they have the right to same sex attraction.

This ^ exactly.

The statement itself is uncontroversial, all gender-critical people want is for everyone including trans people to be able to get on with their lives happily and to live with respect.... but the problematic issue is with the subtext to this kind of statement- and that it is signed by the police no less. Shock

The problematic subtext to this type of statement is that it is effectively asserting that: There is no clash of rights here, Women who complain about the issues presented for them are being hateful. They should face legal consequences.

The problem is that in the debate around this issue, at the level that councils, universities, police forces and public bodies are being asked to be signatories to these statements- it’s all being presented in very simple terms ‘#no debate’ and the debate being presented as though there are hateful feminist people out there physically attacking vulnerable transwomen.

For the avoidance of any doubt: this is a crime that has never once been recorded ever as perpetrated by any woman or feminist that I have ever heard of.
Would be pleased to be corrected, if I have got that important statistic wrong.

Feminists or anyone else disagreeing or not sharing views with other people- especially when disagreeing with an orthodoxy which disadvantages women...
are not people conducting a hate crime. They are people peacefully presenting a different political viewpoint, which is an essential part of a healthy democracy.

Another part of a healthy democracy is that our public institutions, who are there to serve all of us: and in particular, the police for obvious reasons, need to stay well out of weighing in on peaceful differences of public opinion except where these issues are relevant to issues of eg policing criminal activity.

Unless of course these public bodies ARE trying to set themselves up as the thought police over women?

Because (referring back to statistics above) there hasn’t been even one relevant crime committed by a dissenting woman connected to the issues set out on the collective statement.

So this all now starts to look a bit like transactivist groups creating a climate where dissent from women as a class, about issues that affect them and their kids, cannot be tolerated, just because those few hyper-individualistic lobby groups take the authoritarian and narcissistic view, that dissent or debate is exactly the same as attack.

So actually a denial of a clash of rights and an active silencing of women’s concerns is what public bodies are signing up to in these innocuous-seeming statements of support.

We should pull public bodies up on this (because public bodies need to be very wary of getting involved in issues of politics unless there is actual crimes, arising from prejudice involved).

As taxpayers we can also point to the vast hypocrisy that where long-standing large-scale actual crimes are involved- like with domestic violence, as PP have said- similar statements of solidarity have not been issued by these same public bodies.

Procrastinator1 · 17/12/2018 12:06

Absolutely agree Chatty. I think there are small cabals of tras in many public bodies who promote this sort of thinking and statement. The rest just sort of go along with it without understanding the background or intent or are too frightened to say anything. After the removal of the Glinner thread about Mermaids, one wouldn't want to suggest any body to whom complaints should be made.

Needmoresleep · 17/12/2018 12:16

My early new year resolution is to challenge each time. Something thoughtful along the lines of Chatty Lions post.

Public sector organisations need to recognise there are competing needs that should be discussed and balanced. You cannot take away citizens right by dictat.

I would write to the Chief Executive of the Local Government Association

[email protected]

Copy to the CEs of the organisations on the list. I will do links for these later when I am at my PC.

EmpressAdultHumanFemale · 17/12/2018 12:33

Come out for Trans Equality is a Stonewall slogan and Stonewall, nowadays, are both homophobic & misogynist. I'd be worried about who'd actually written that statement & who was leaning over their shoulder.

ChattyLion · 17/12/2018 16:41

Thanks so much of the suggestion of who to write to. It’s really helpful to have pointers around this.

Talking of misogynistic slogans- Amnesty International’s campaign ‘I am who I say I am’ should definitely be added to that category. It’s overtly boundary-pushing.

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