Oh bloody hell, friend's grandson on puberty blockers

[smithsinarazz]

Me: 42, married, one DS (16 months). My friend: seventy or so, married, adult children, one grandchild of ten or so identifying as MtF; and my friend is dying. He has prostate cancer and (ha!) is on puberty blockers to hold it back. Met singing; communicate mainly online.
We have discussed the trans issue before, amicably enough; I thought we were both socially liberal but gender critical - but maybe that was just me.
This week I got a rather rambling email copied in to various other people saying that the grandchild has been put on puberty blockers, and talking about the need for acceptance, and arguing (with links to some quacks in the US) that to deny puberty blockers is not a neutral act, but an actively harmful one - etc. So I replied - as of course I was going to - with an extended version of "How the hell can you believe all this bollocks?"
Various emails exchanged since - both of us trying to be nice to one another, but flaring up. I feel very strongly that what his family are approving for their child is barbaric; he believes that I am lacking in understanding, or being judgemental. You can guess the arguments; you've seen them all before.
I can't save his grandchild.
Perhaps I could save the friendship. It would be kindest to leave this particular argument aside, for the limited time he's got left.
But I am so cross with him I just don't know what to say, and sad as hell about the child.
Just venting really.

But none of it will be his choice. It is the child's parents who have agreed to this course of treatment and the medical staff they (hopefully) are consulting with. He is trying to rationalise and deal with it, framed in the love he has for his child and grandchild. I don't think it's fair to be cross with him, he's going to be stuck between a rock and a hard place with this.

You are right, Assassinated.

I hope that didn't come across as harsh!

oh bloody hell

Yes. What a fucking mess it all is. Hearing these stories is like helplessly watching a car crash. Sorry OP.

Be kind to him. Assassinated is right, he doesn't have any influence on this.

If he gets any side effects from the puberty blocker medication he himself is on, perhaps that'll help his child see reason.
But I'm being very optimistic there (not about the side effects, obviously, but the seeing reason part.)

The whole situation is a mess, I just don't understand why it's so common now.

For m-f the advantage of puberty blockers is it stops voice dropping and Adam's apple development, but young people do change their minds too. My concern is less about occasional cases but sheer quantity, has our generation got lots of undiagnosed cases or is it how we are bringing up kids today (my DD's have 4 trans friends, one changed mind at 17 and is now identifying as gay)

It's social contagion. Which wouldn't be so worrying if they weren't given puberty blockers like it was candy.

There is good reason this sort of medication was, during saner times, reserved for old men with prostate cancer.

Your friend is dying. They have decided to support their child and their grandchild in the decisions they have made about their grandchild’s gender ID - how their grandchild is raised is no business of yours. If you are really their friend you will respect this!

80-95% of children naturally desist and accept their biological sex if they are allowed to go through puberty.

95% of children who go on puberty blockers go on transition medically.

Puberty cures GD with an 80%+ success rate. But if you prevent puberty, you stop this natural cure. Why the fuck is affirmation the approved treatment?

AssassinatedBeauty is right.

It's crazy and harmful to halt puberty, you are right, It's presented as a pause but I feel this is very misleading. There is no point in arguing with your friend though.

The decision is not your friend's so just support him and stop talking about this with him.

Why the fuck is affirmation the approved treatment?

Mermaids and the bogus suicide stats.

how their grandchild is raised is no business of yours

If / when a child is being abused it becomes everybody's business.

If / when a child is being abused it becomes everybody's business

I totally agree. However realistically, as AssassinatedBeauty says grandparents have no say, so even OP convinced him he is unlikely to have enough influence on the parents.

Some doctors are shocking though. On twitter a woman comments that she met a doctor volunteering at an LGBT clinic who was claiming that tostesterone is harmless and totally reversible. When told about some of the adverse and irreversible effects of it, said doctor claimed ignorance because she'd only been working there for a year.

How can patient's give informed consent if the doctor hasn't bothered to get the information?

Yeah, I agree with Assasinated. Your friend has no power to decide this. He probably has a strong desire to go from this world feeling that his grandkid is going to be ok, happy, accepted. Hence his plea for understanding and tolerance.
And, surely, no matter what we think of puberty blockers, the kids who take them should be met with kindness (Yeah, the bad word, I know. Rest assured I expect this from men, too). That does not rule out women and girls asserting our boundaries, obviously. But I doubt your friend wrote this email to start a bathroom discussion, OP.

Oh god.

Terrifying.

That poor child

Puberty blockers should only be used as treatment for precocious puberty. Only a few years ago when I worked in admin support for paediatric endocrinology this never happened. Any request for puberty blocking on a puberty aged child was a strict no because puberty was a normal and necessary process.

What the actual fuck has happened?

It’s a shit position for both of you to be in.

Of course your friend wants to provide loving support to his grandchild.

Of course you are worried about the well-being of a child being prescribed a powerful drug off-label, with the long term affects not-yet-known.

You both want the child to have a happy future as a healthy adult, so perhaps you can heal the friendship by acknowledging this mutual aim and then avoid the subject? Perhaps ask him to pass your email onto the child’s parents so if they ever want to reach out to someone who takes a different view to the dominant Butterflies/Mermaids voice, they have the option, even if that’s years from now?

Being opposed to current trans ideology and being concerned about politically driven medical intervention for gender non conforming children and young adults isn’t the same as not caring or being non-supportive to individual trans people. As long as your friend is able to see this (and hasn’t fallen into the cult-think that any questions = transphobia/literal death) then there is no reason why your friendship cannot continue.

It must be complete headfuckery to learn that your grandchild has been diagnosed with what may turn out to be a life-long, complicated health condition, and that your own terminal illness means you will not live to support them through adolescence, let alone to adulthood.

Your friend can be forgiven for only thinking in the short term, I reckon.

Assassinated is right, he doesn't have much control, over the situation.
However, if someone told me their grandchild was going to be welcomed into female adulthood via an FGM ceremony, I'd call the social services.

Nudibranch provides useful statistics.

Also setting a child on the path of transition, causes huge damage. Those who do fully transition are 4 times more likely to commit suicide than average, and twice as likely to be hospitalized in a psychiatric care facility. If transitioning was a medicine, it would be banned given the evidence of demonstrable harm.
journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0016885

This family will be held responsible for the path they are putting their child on. Claiming they did it in good faith is no excuse.

And, surely, no matter what we think of puberty blockers, the kids who take them should be met with kindness (Yeah, the bad word, I know. Rest assured I expect this from men, too). That does not rule out women and girls asserting our boundaries, obviously. But I doubt your friend wrote this email to start a bathroom discussion

Why would you conflate these two issues? The bathroom discussion is to do with self-ID, where any man can legally trespass on women's boundaries (see the 16 female beauticians being sued because they would consent to apply a Brazilian to a man's balls in Canada) and the issue of children's health being permanently damaged by medicalising their psychological problems. Radical feminists do not hate transpeople per se, we hate the advocates of this Brave New World, many of whom aren't even trans.

Why the need to broadcast this child's treatment to all and sundry via email too? Not much privacy and confidentiality there.

Well surely people are going to notice the child not entering puberty at the normal time

Normal puberty can happen over a pretty large timespan and I doubt other people scrutinise kids to that degree. I find it weirder the need to discuss and justify what is a private matter.
If my child decided they were trans, or frankly had any significant health or social issue, I'd respect their privacy and only tell people what they needed to know for my child's dignity and comfort.

Coyoacan I did not conflate anything, on the contrary. OP seemed to conflate a poweless dying man who hoped that his grandkid wouldn‘t be treated like shit with the translobby.

True that the grandfather doesn't have a deciding vote on this but he is promoting the medical abuse of a child, which I am sure it is very hard to accept that someone we are friends with would do. I hope the child has someone on the side of their actual health during this time.

I cannot overstate how misguided I think your rationale is Grace. I am as opposed to puberty blockers for GNC kids as anyone on this board, but I can‘t see the point in confronting some family member of such a kid, who doesn‘t have control over the decision, let alone questioning a friendship over it. I don‘t even think there is a point in confronting parents who do make the decision - apart from a comment once about the science not really supporting the current approach and encouraging the study of other resources like 4th wave now or so. Once.
The reality of it is that most parents will defer to the experts. And on that front, you currently have health care professionals, politicians, media, schools, ngos in unison telling everyone how affirmation and blockers are the way to go if you don‘t want a dead child. Heck, you might even lose your kid if you don‘t go along. Under these circumstances it is not surprising if most parents go along with this apparent consensus. And telling them what awful child abusers they are won‘t change a damn thing.
The only thing that can change things and help those kids is confronting all those professionals, demanding they base their policies on evidence, science, facts and holding them to account.
I admire and applaud every parent who does stand up and reject this current ‚consensus‘, but I can‘t blame those who don‘t.