NZ Rugby Coach: super power that can see ‘genuine remorse’

[Pennydrew142]

This makes me so angry. It’s very common in NZ but this time the offender, not a New Zealander but playing there, was REWARDED with a contract he did not have before he dragged his partner down the road and beat her & avoided conviction because it might of jeapordised a separate contract in Ireland ( them again ) that was withdrawn afterwards anyway! So the top club in the Southern Hemisphere offers him a lifeline because... it’s not a character flaw. Oh no. It’s a behavioural thing. It’s silly really. Isn’t this man Brad amazing? He can tell the guy is genuinely remorseful. If only he was around when Dad was hitting us, he could of let us know he wasn’t genuinely remorseful every time he cried and said sorry. Ffs. This is so so common in rugby but particularly in NZ where the DV rate goes up 80% if the team doesn’t win. Really. Not that I don’t support this, but the All Blacks wore rainbow laces when ex Welsh player Gareth Thomas was the victim of a homophobic attack. On the weekend of white ribbon day. They’ve never worn white ribbons that I can recall. They never speak about domestic violence but regularly are out in support of LGBT & mental health. I guess it would be awkward given so many in their ranks hit their partners ( and never miss a game ).

i.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/super-rugby/109078456/unwanted-waikato-wing-sevu-reece-training-with-crusaders

penndydrew similar to you I left nz but with my nz partner - who is not violent.

I agree nz is dangerous for women - domestic abuse is horrific. I came from a family with lots of violence in it. Looking back I am surprised that the police were never involvedz

I don't think violence was spoken of - I remember a young friend telling me that once a week she or her younger sister would be punched all over at night and pulled from their beds in the dark and punched.

How horrific - I thought it was horrific but I didn't do anything, nor did she. It was just expected oh well parents can be awful ... next.

I have no intention in going back to NZ either.

I remember sticking up in school once for a classmate who had not done her homework as the teacher was threatening to call her Dad and we all knew if that happened it would mean she was beaten badly.

All that being said I have a son who is into rugby and I am very worried about it but thankfully his dad goes with him and his dad would never tolerate anything.

MQv2

I’m a Māori New Zealander, with a father born to two Irish New Zealander’s.

Don’t fucking assume my ethnicity. Take your bullshit on an important thread, elsewhere.

MQv2

I’m having a pop at the Irish rugby community. Not Irish people. Don’t you dare accuse me of racism.

MQv2

Grow the fuck up

Keep your anti English crap to yourself. Pot. Kettle.

swerv

Yeah I would be worried about my son in rugby too, but as long as he’s got parents who talk to him about this stuff I think you can avoid him joining that pack mentality. Even in an international test recently, an English Male player shouted at the Australian captain, ‘ we’re not snitches!’. The Aussie captain had just informed management two players had taken women back to their room, against policy. I found the English Male players comments interesting given the alleged rape on tour of 4 English players, some that guys current teammates, back in 2008 I believe. They all denied it and the girl wouldn’t pursue it but always maintained her claims.

alleged rape BY 4 English players what a terrible error! Sorry.

If you can't see that it was meant to show the stupidity of your own anti-irish sentiment (when I wings assumed you were English) then I'll make that clear now.

That was meant to show the hypocrisy of someone who would refer to Irish behavior with "them again" but would not like to have similar stereotypes assigned to they're own nationality

MQv2

Wtf is the matter with you? You firstly deliberately misrepresent the point that anyone with any awareness at all would know I’m talking about, Irish RUGBY clubs, then you assume my own ethnicity to make your own prejudiced statement while calling me ‘racist’ ( you can’t be racist to white people, nobody is being racist to Irish ).

It’s clear I’m kiwi and I’m talking about and calling out MY OWN CULTURE which deserves it. This has nothing to do with stereotypes! These are accurate facts about cultures which are known for treating women poorly, Ireland and the Catholic Church have made it a horrible place got a woman. The Belfast rape trial highlighted something we all learnt is common behaviour in their rugby culture. If you think calling that out is ‘racist’, you are part of the problem.

I’ve got nothing else to say to someone they derails an important thread on Pacific island culture, my culture, and it’s attitude towards women with your fucking nonsense.

Thanks pennydrew my husband has been impressed with the coaches as has my son. I think you are right it is up to us to parent properly and not bring any of the rubbish past to our children.

It is interesting that there is a Male hashtag about Grace Millane not all men- it isn't the point at all and to me such a hash tag just fails to actually address the safety of women and who perpetrates violence against women and children.

Anyhow nice to chat to another person about New Zealand. Like you I will not go back to live. Last time I did visit the aggressive driving was enough for me.

I have lived her nearly 20 years I don't think I would fit in back home now and I don't think I fit in here - especially post the Brexit vote. I really try help people and contribute in a positive way to society but I have come to the realisation that I am not always welcome - I still love London though.

I assumed she meant that Irish rugby overall had a problem with male attitudes to women.

I am Irish. I went to two of the schools featured as background in the Ulster rape crisis. I know the family of one of the defendants. I know lots of people involved with Ulster rugby. I was sexually assaulted myself as a young adult, in my own home in ormeau by an ex rugby playing young man. I know the man who is leading the enquiry.

There is a MASSIVE issue with sexism and attitudes to young women in Ulster rugby at least. I support the op in calling out horrific sexist attitudes and acceptance of abuse, assault and harassment of any women held by any men in any sport anywhere.

Anyone wanting to read more should try Louise o’neill’s Asking for It. Or listen to The Second Captain’s podcast on the Ulster rape case.

swerv

We have very similar positions and experiences! I don’t quite fit in here either, but England is so beautiful and London so multicultural I do have a love for it too. But I miss my culture, Māori faces and singing... it brings me sadness either way. It’s heartbreaking to see a culture with so much goodness, actually lead statistics on such a horrible crime. I remember when Alan Duff started calling out Māori on their own stuff, it wasn’t received well but we are getting better at talking about it- mostly women. My Mum works with our iwi and there is a lot of discussion on violence and child abuse, it’s just nothing is changing male behaviour yet.

I found that hashtag thing about the murder to be incredibly inappropriate.

Trippingalongalong

Thank you for your support. I am so sorry for what you experienced, I hope you received the support and healing you needed. I’m a victim of multiple sexual assaults, including an instance involving a group of young boys. Rugby players. They showed off about it and I was called a slut. I was unconscious when they dragged me off, i had fallen over drunk and hurt myself. Thankfully concussion meant I don’t remember it, just the unfortunate and humiliating aftermath.

I love Ireland, Irish people and my Irish family and extended family’s. It is absolutely wrong to call me racist for making an accurate statement on culture. Many Irish people have done the same.

Also excellent post trippingalong I am sorry to hear about your abuse.

I will look up those podcasts.

Oh god, there was no support, that’s the whole point about how horrific it was/is. It was all how annoying, sure you know what he’s like, boys will be boys, eh? I said to my father recently, who like all decent guys is a bit clueless and like ‘sure women need to report it’ - to whom? For what, why? No one would do anything about it.

Another thing I’ve only slowly come to realise in the aftermath about belfast (I can’t speak for other cities) is how much you g women are set up to fail. We were encouraged to get super dressed up and ‘dolly ourselves up’, the norm is that. When I’d come back from college abroad, somewhere the look was very androgynous, jeans, sneakers, t shirt, no makeup, it’s almost as if people would look awry - ‘would you not get changed, make an effort, try and look nice’. I mean I’d count my own mother in that for sure. But then you wear a little dress, the big comfy m&s pants you were wearing don’t work under it, you put in smaller lace edges ones instead for no vpl, and bingo! If something happens to you, they’ll be held up in court in front of a heckling audience and you’ll be judged as out looking for it.

It’s all just so sad.

Trippingalongalong

It is sad. I’m sorry. That was an insensitive question from me. I meant did you have a friend or your Mum to help you emotionally? It’s just so painful. It is a massive problem in rugby and some of the reactions to the Belfast trial and online comments today about the new accusation against a player, really do drive home what a massive problem it really is. Both in NZ and Ireland.

Yes yes pennydrew I hear you - also promising is some Maori and Pacific island youth in nz, what they are achieving now and how they are reconciling themselves with the history of nz.

I don't want to out myself here but I am incredibly proud of some younger members of my wider family who are part Maori and are just doing amazing things. Amazing amazing things.

Another close family member works in the prison system and youth courts and really tries help vulnerable people before it is too late. Drugs and alcohol are a real issue in New Zealand and making sure people are educated and don't suffer illiteracy.

Anyway back to rugby you are 100 percent right to call out misogyny and thanks for starting the thread.

trippingalong is the person leading the inquiry going to lead it well in your opinion? Thought I would ask since you know of them.

Take care

FYI I note that very early morning reports stated: Irish rugby star accused of rape in dublin’ then one stiry disappeared completely and the other rephrased it to: major Irish Sports star questioned in credible rape accusation ( she’s been treated in hospital ). Just didn’t want to be accused of misrepresenting the story. It may be a diff sport now.

swerv

I’m careful to try not to put myself but I have whanau there doing great things, including adopting Māori children from violent homes. The work is being done. We are just yet to see change in behaviour.

Yes my mum was furious but also again, it is so normalised at many levels. Loads of friends and aquaintances were fine with it too. The ones who stood up for me I will forever be grateful to.

I am absolutely fine now, but have started to speak up more because I feel so furious and because #ibelieveher, wherever she is.

Trippingalongalong

#Ibelieveher too. I sincerely hope she is ok, I’ve thought about her so much since. What a dreadful experience having to go over that evidence in a public gallery, in front of the Irish captain. The defence brought him in on purpose.

There’s another Canterbury rugby story about a man who terrorised his family and threatened them with a rifle, then ran over a police officer before they were forced to shoot and kill him ( very rare there ). The Canterbury rugby CEO said it was a ‘huge loss’ to Canterbury rugby and his mate said he was under stress and had an autistic child. So did the mother, only she didn’t deal with that by attempting to harm or kill others. I have an autistic child too, using that in this story this way is beyond insulting to autistic children.

www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/man-killed-in-darfield-shooting-incident-good-bloke-former-rugby-friend