How to stop young women buying into the shit?

[CrazyToast]

Ive just watched several Rihanna videos. I see that she is successful and rich. But its all based on a male perspective of what a woman should be. How can we get young women to promote what a woman can be, rather than play to what culture wants them to be?

What do you mean by a male perspective of what a woman should be?

Strange, I’ve been watching IACGMOOH and just looked up Emily Atak as had never seen or heard of her before. It’s hard to believe she is the same person as the sexy, heavily made up image she portrays out of the jungle. It’s like a complete alter ego, a disguise. I wonder if she bevaves differently when all made up in tight sexy clothes pouting and posing to what we see in the jungle. I know it makes a difference to me on the rare occasion i glam up a bit.

It's a bit depressing when you think of the punk era. Perhaps bring them up on that, not the current crop of celebrities?

I'm not sure you can use a Rihanna video as a basis to comment on the youth of today. Pop videos have been like that for decades and the whole point is to 'play to what culture wants them to be' as that's how they become commercially successful.

Although I'll admit I hate all the reality tv/Love Island crap which seems to be so prominent with current generations.

Well what do you mean by what males think women should be and why is it better to be what women think other women should be?

Surely the message should be to be independent and aware enough to pursue your own goals and interests rather than conform to the concept of an ideal archetype, regardless of whether that ideal is set by men or women.

Well what do you mean by what males think women should be and why is it better to be what women think other women should be?

I am going to guess that OP means men want women to be hairless, child-like but big-breasted fuckdolls with not too much brain or too much self-esteem.

While women just want other women to be decent human beings, and for themselves to be ... well, anything great they can become. Scientists, artists, adventurers.

I am going to guess that OP means men want women to be hairless, child-like but big-breasted fuckdolls with not too much brain or too much self-esteem.

While women just want other women to be decent human beings, and for themselves to be ... well, anything great they can become. Scientists, artists, adventurers.

I know where you're coming from, but we're talking about music videos here.

Peter Andre wasn't a hit with the ladies because of his razor sharp intellect.

I think it’s that many women, especially young women are playing a role, a part that society says will make them popular and successful and that’s often playing the ultra sex kitten role with all that goes with it - they’re no doubt totally different at home with a fresh face and their pjs on or just hanging out with their girlfriends. Guess we all do it or have done to a degree. It leaves an impression on the next crop of girls (and boys) growing up though.

I think it's partly about telling them it's shit when they're still young enough to respect your opinion. Tell them yes, it's silly that these women are roaming around with no clothes fawning over some bloke who, note, is fully clothed.

How did being a woman become the whole pouting, moving, posing in ridiculous unnatural looking poses that it has become. If you look at a lot of advertising featuring women - it would be completely ridiculous to see a man doing it. Thinking of the old Flake ads.

Well there’s this thing called reason. People who have it don’t buy into shit. All that is required is a decent education to polish a basic level of intellect. Sadly good education is rare in Britain.

@hestiaparenthos do they though? Or do women believe that men want that? Most men I know wouldn’t touch the kind of “fuck doll” you describe with a barge pole.

I think for most women it's something that naturally comes with age and - sadly - seeing how the world screws women over. When I was 18 I thought we didn't need feminism because women could do anything now. I also thought I was just different to/cleverer than other girls (I must be, the boys who wanted to sleep with me said so!) so I just wouldn't be silly enough to suffer any sexism. At 30 I knew that was bullshit and looked back and cringed. Motherhood/pregnancy has also made me realise that a female body shapes experience in a way I hadn't previously fully lived.

Exactly Lisa, age and experience takes time - my views have constantly changed. Wgen i was 16 i thought my superior morals and views would never change.

@LisaSimpsonsbff I am really starting to think that it does indeed come with age! I used to think feminism wasnt needed too, and that it was man hating etc. Having reproductive problems has also made me realise the importance of my female body too! I just wish I couldve seen it all sooner.

Basically what I mean is this: women presenting themselves in a way which is sexy and attractive to men---often without even realising that is what they are doing, or why they are doing it. I know I did when I was younger.

I had a sudden epiphany watching 'Shut Up and Drive' video---is this how women want to be or is it how men want us to be? Do we even know what we would want to be if we didn't have that pressure to be sexy and hot etc?

Thanks for the thoughts above xx

hestiaparenthos do they though? Or do women believe that men want that? Most men I know wouldn’t touch the kind of “fuck doll” you describe with a barge pole.

Men you know are a self-selecting group. Or a group selected by you.

There's still enough demand for the porn industry, so I think there's quite enough men who want fuck dolls.

There's also a quite good market for literal fuck dolls, or so I've heard.

If all women started being their natural selves tomorrow, I can guarantee you, not every woman would find a boyfriend who'd meet her standards.

The solution is not to tell ourselves that men like us as we are, the solution is to realize that it doesn't matter what men want.

@CrazyToast

She seems remarkably happy and very successful, I for one am happy to see any woman who is both happy and successful. We need to be quite careful about presupposing that you, I or indeed anyone else knows better than the inidivudual in question in terms of what makes them happy and how they should live their life.

Sometimes you just need to accept that your way of thinking (or mine for that fact) isn’t for everyone and so long as those in question are of sound mind then we have an obligation to allow such freedom of thought - anything less would be hypocritical and contradictory when we discuss parity amongst the sexes and wider related issues