Womb transplants- could they liberate or further oppress women?

[CrazyToast]

What the title says really. If females are not the only ones to give birth, will our oppression based on our reproductive system be lessened? Will it be extended to those with womb transplants? Or is it something of value which is being taken from us by men and we will no longer be of use?

Do you mean womb implants into men? That isn't going to happen in any of our lifetimes.

Womb transplants are only possible in females. The clue is in the name, “transplant”, as opposed to “implant” (which it would be if going into a male recipient). Womb implants are not possible.

You actually think it’s possible to implant a womb into a man and that his body will magically be able to sustain a pregnancy? Jesus.

Let’s imagine, for the sake of argument, this was even possible.

What’s in it for the child?

I can't see many/any men will ever want to do this, if it were ever possible.

The transplants are for women with absolute uterine infertility - either through MRKH (born without a womb) or hysterectomy due to cancer

The donors for all the births thus far until the recent Brazil case have been known live donors (eg sisters, mothers, close friends) who had completed their families and wanted to help a loved one

All participants in the UK trial are adult human females who have been extensively vetted

It’s never going to happen.

I can't see many/any men will ever want to do this

Oh I can think of a few...

But it's never going to happen.

Just look at the comments under a few of the social media articles about the most recent transplant baby birth. As predictable as night turns to day there were the cries of “give them to transwomen, we should have the right to be parents too!”

I'm sure there were lots of comments. But it isn't going to happen. And if people tried then they would cause a lot of harm to the men who tried it.

Men might want to, but creating a neo vagina and breasts doesn't make them female, and doesn't affect their biological ability to sustain a pregnancy. Endocrine system, ligaments, all sorts. I say this as someone who is an adult human female and cannot carry a child due to uterine infertility

Simply having a uterus doesn't mean you can get or stay pregnant.

Womb transplants will not liberate women.

There are many reasons this won't happen. Male physiology being the most obvious.

It won't free women from oppression because the only men who will want this will be the oppressive ones.

Why on earth would a boring, average couple choose to have the man go through major surgeries rather than just get pregnant the old fashioned way? Couples with infertility? Seems very far down the road for the man to do this. Gay men? I'm going to guess very very few will want to. That leaves transwomen.

I'm assuming there is extensive counselling before major medical intervention like this...

assasinated I was responding to your comments that there wouldn’t be any men who wanted it. I wasn’t saying it’s possible. There are already men who want it.

There won't be many who actually would go through with an attempt. I'm sure some will say they would, but it's easy to say it when it's a total hypothetical.

And I don't think that any doctor in a country with decent laws would be allowed to attempt it.

(Also, I did say "many/any"...)

The only thing I can see womb transplants doing is the same surrogacy does: Oppress women more.

IF it were possible to transplant a womb into a man, and IF any person with a womb transplant didn't have to take immunosuppressants all the time, that man would still not be able to get pregnant from PIV, which is why he wouldn't be oppressed in the ways women are.
He could also always choose to get rid of the womb again, because it is not vital part of male anatomy, and also because taking the womb out wouldn't render the man infertile, as he'd still have male fertility.

This hypothetical option of transplanting wombs into men would lead to poor women in the third world having to sell their wombs to entitled white TiMs. Which is more oppression, not less.

So, right now, I cannot see it as having any positive impact on society as a whole. The only positive impact of womb transplants is on the lives of women who can have babies through them.

Society as a whole would be better off if this weren't possible, as then TiMs wouldn't demand to be given women's body parts.

The only thing that will free women from male oppression is men taking the time to grow up and stop being oppressive. I wont hold my breath, they've had 2,000 years or more to get it together and so far they don't have a great track record.

A transplant is only possible woman to woman.
An implant might be possible from a woman to a man at some point in the future, but it won't be an ethical journey to get there. A womb is not a plug and play organ, pregnancy and breastfeeding are extremely complex interactive processes. Men's bodies and brains are not wired to sustain a pregnancy.

The more likely option will be artificial wombs. The human race does not need them at the moment, we already produce more humans than the planet can sustain.
They could be used to benefit individuals who cannot sustain their pregnancy for one reason or another. But you could say that about many medical breakthroughs and ultimately they are all only available to people who can afford to buy them. The majority of the worlds women already don't have access to prenatal scans and they can be life saving.

Even with artificial wombs, there will still have to be women to produce the eggs; we are the sex that confer mitochondrial DNA on the offspring, and without it you don't have a viable fetus.

I'm assuming there is extensive counselling before major medical intervention like this...

BBC article from earlier this year about the UK womb transplant trial

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-44360786

Around 750 women in the UK have approached the team to enquire about transplantation.

Women being considered for a womb transplant will undergo clinical and psychological investigations as would any potential living donors

Mr Smith told the BBC that after a preliminary selection process, the team was in contact with around 50 women who were potential recipients

IF it were possible to transplant a womb into a man, and IF any person with a womb transplant didn't have to take immunosuppressants all the time, that man would still not be able to get pregnant from PIV, which is why he wouldn't be oppressed in the ways women are.

Absolutely true and don't disagree at all. It's also true that infertile women like me can't get pregnant from PIV sex either.

I'm oppressed as a female in many many ways due to my sex, and I may be discriminated at in the workplace on the basis that employers might assume that I can get pregnant. But at the risk of stating the obvious, any female eligible for a womb transplant would by definition be unable to get pregnant from PIV.

Also true that whilst I can't get or stay pregnant due to uterine infertility but I wouldn't have been eligible to take part in the transplant trial as I don't have absolute uterine infertility. I have a uterus, it just doesn't work properly.

I'm oppressed as a female in many many ways due to my sex, and I may be discriminated at in the workplace on the basis that employers might assume that I can get pregnant. But at the risk of stating the obvious, any female eligible for a womb transplant would by definition be unable to get pregnant from PIV.

Of course, but you are a woman. I was answering the question Will [our oppression] be extended to those [men] with womb transplants?.

Which it won't, because they're still men, and all the things that enable men to oppress infertile women don't apply, and reproductive coercion is still not possible.

Absolutely agreed

Frankly if assisted reproductive technology gets to a point of a male being able to carry a baby to term, IVF success rates ought to be close to 100% as scientists will clearly have mastered the unknown factors that determine getting and staying pregnant. Somehow as IVF is more likely to fail than it is to succeed, I suspect that's a very long way off!!