Hannah Gadsby on 'good men'

[silentcrow]

Hannah nails it again.

www.stylist.co.uk/people/hannah-gadsby-calls-out-good-men-in-blistering-speech/241290

Comedian Hannah Gadsby has delivered a blistering speech decrying the “good men” who draw false lines between themselves and “bad men”, saying that “all men believe they are good”.

Speaking to an audience at The Hollywood Reporter’s 2018 Women in Entertainment Gala, Gadsby pondered the problem of men being the ones to draw a line on misogyny.

“I want to speak about the very big problem I have with the good men, especially the good men who take it upon themselves to talk about the bad men,” she said.

“I find good men talking about bad men incredibly irritating, and this is something the good men are doing a lot of at the moment.”

...continues. There's a video clip if you click through (just don't bother to scroll through the Twitter comments).

If you've not come across Hannah before, her show on Netflix is called Nanette and it's essential viewing.

I saw that doing the rounds on Twitter and it's v good. I love Gadsby!

I saw that. She was so right. I’ve met so many “good men” who have done bad things. In fact I think the worst things have come from those self described “good men”, and I now see it as a red flag.

I'd recommend this and the Netflix special too.

She's correct, it's always good men drawing the line in the sand, never women. And the line always changes depending on the man and the situation.

She's really, really good.

I watched this too (and Nanette), it was great.

Wow

"Garden variety consent dyslexics"
She nails it

She's completely right. More often than I'd like to think about, the guys that I've been warned away from by other blokes for being rough or having a bad reputation have been totally fine, and the blokes that are described as lovely are the ones with the wandering hands who don't take no for an answer.

I trust my own spider sense on the people I talk to more than I trust what other people say about their reputation.

This is how so many men get away with sexual harassment and abuse for so long - because they are "good men" and people choose to believe them over their accusers. That line in the sand works very well for them.

People judge the bad things they do as circumstantial, or a blip, but judge the bad things others do as insight to their character. The fact is, no matter how deep and mysterious your inner life is, you are your actions. Good on Hannah for calling out the hypocrisy of these men.

I'm on a FB group that has many joke posts about these "good men".

These good men always moaning how women don't reward them (99% they mean "have sex with them") for being such beacons of male society. CLUE: If you have to mansplain how good you are, you aren't.

Loved LOVED Nanette too.

And also, you "good men", why are you telling us? Go tell it to the "bad men" you are so vocally pretending decrying and get your own house in order.

She's great - though she used the C** word in this latest speech

She nailed the redrawing of the consent line that I see many men doing - rarely if ever does one say "Leave it to the women to define what's acceptable for them and their children as they are the experts here"

And also, you "good men", why are you telling us? Go tell it to the "bad men" you are so vocally pretending decrying and get your own house in order.

They are unwilling to do that, aren't they? Especially to other "good" men....

She's amazing. She understands deeply and is able to explain it so well. I definitely need to watch Nanette.

"I want to speak about the very big problem I have with the good men, especially the good men who take it upon themselves to talk about the bad men,” she said^

Would she prefer these men shut up?

www.theguardian.com/society/2018/dec/04/domestic-violence-abuse-patrick-stewart-david-challen-hart-brothers

I think she means this kind of man:

(snl sketch last year, "Girl in a Bar.")

I listened to the speech. The actual content was minimal. The effort put into the "oh look at me, I'm such a deep thinker making a really important speech" was impressive however. And she can bore off with her "white women" stuff. That's such an easy target - unlike say the violent misogyny of black male rappers.

self-defining as a "good man" is just another way to get women into bed. Unfortunately the only way to prove yourself to be a good man is to point out all the things other men do, that you don't do.

Like these bad men are normal and the good man is abnormal and special in some way.

Nope - nobody is going to congratulate you for doing what is normal for women every day. We don't generally go round abusing people, being violent and no one tell us how great we are for being "good women".

When we tell you what our boundaries are - listen. That's all you need to do.

I took it as criticism of men, particularly in the media, who call out certain behaviour yet don't allow women to set their own boundaries. I was thinking if that one from the Mash Report who didn't like Julia Hartley Brewer calling herself woman.

She didn't say men aren't allowed to talk about the domestic violence they have witnessed.

And she can bore off with her "white women" stuff

I hope she was talking about black women, women with disabilities at this point,
rather than men, as it was at a women's event. It would be good not to have to clearly state that 'not all men' and 'women do it too' all the time.

I like her 🙂

I've heard many feminists state that men need to taking responsibilty for not tolerating the behaviour of other men, naming it and shaming it by other men when it happens, and that until this starts to happen and it's just women complaining the shift in mens behaviour won't occur.

Yet now, we're complainingg about men who do this? ?

Yes self proclaimed 'I'm a good guy' by anyone of any sex, would suggest is tosser, but there is a difference between that and openly stating behaviour which is not acceptable to and won't be tolerated by other men.

We want more of that surely?

She wasn't saying men shouldn't speak up against male violence. She was saying women should get to decide where the boundaries for unacceptable male behaviour are.

That's how I took it too, Tallulah. Its obviously part of a longer segment, if anyone finds the rest, please post it.

In terms of men like Patrick Stewart, the Hart Brothers, David Challen - what they have in common is that listen to women and work with groups like Refuge. They listen to their mothers, sisters, and they - particularly Patrick - have the courage to say to men "Women say stop. This is unacceptable, wrong. I am raising their voices to you." What they're not doing is wading in in their size 14 boots and saying "Here's what I think!" and trying to set the boundaries with no reference to women's actual needs (and yes, we see this most clearly in the wokiest of woke blokes declaring everything should be gender neutral).

This is the whole speech.

Thank you, that improves the context and clarifies the audience, too. It's all in that last minute (which is what she does with Nanette, of course), and she's talking about representation, about who gets to tell the stories, about raising up voices instead of talking over them.

She is right, and I'd like to see it pulled out even further from the macro "men constantly talking over women", "able-bodied people deciding what's best for the disabled". For example, Lass, you mentioned black rappers - they claim to speak for all of black youth, where are the voices of young black men making their way without violence? Or where are the voices of detransitioners when TRAs speak over them? Why do we mostly hear from Stonewall in the media and not lesbian groups? I think she's getting at the paternalistic, colonialist way of telling stories, where one voice is seen to represent all "for the good of everyone". Hollywood is still making a lot of mistakes on this.