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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Gender-fluid principal to be allowed to return to work

41 replies

QuietContraryMary · 05/12/2018 11:30

Some of you may have seen this story earlier in the year.

Basically Mr./Ms. Daniels declared him/herself gender-fluid, Bunce-style

The Huffington Post obviously declared him/her stunning & brave

www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/shannon-daniels-transgender-principal_us_5a832943e4b02b66c5128850

Daniels' letter declared him/herself as a 'wise river' with a name 'perfectly designating his/her fluid gender identity'.

www.documentcloud.org/documents/4368681-Letter-from-Principal-Daniels.html

Daniels reportedly changed her gender identity up to four times a day.

The children at school got quite confused and parents eventually declared that he/her would have to leave. www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2018/03/02/parents-declare-confidence-transgender-principal/odABhbh1ySVKo15ceedCWM/story.html

Now Mr Daniels has come to a settlement with the school district to be Mr. Daniels and 'he'. commonwealthmagazine.org/back-story/swampscott-agreement-deals-with-gender-fluidity/

He has also agreed not to change clothing during the school day, and to give at least 2 weeks notice of any future changes in his gender fluids.

This settlement is according to Howard Friedman, a civil rights lawyer proof that liberal, 70% Clinton-voting, Boston suburb Swampscott is horrifically conservative and bigoted. Swampscott should be more like 90% Clinton voting Boston suburb Brookline, which "has a reputation for being a pretty progressive, pretty forward-looking town.”, and also had a transgender principal.

Particularly offensive is the requirement that "a psychiatrist must certify Daniels’ fitness to teach."

This is apparently an offensive piece of transphobia to appease bigots, and there's obviously nothing about changing your clothes four times a day and turning your school into a circus that suggests any need for psychiatric evaluation.

OP posts:
Lougle · 05/12/2018 14:50

I don't believe you can change sex. But I don't believe that a situation in Massachusetts, which has been resolved, should be the subject for ridicule on a chat forum.

vesuvia · 05/12/2018 15:40

"The children at school got quite confused and parents eventually declared that he/her would have to leave."... "Now Mr Daniels has come to a settlement with the school district to be Mr. Daniels and 'he'."

Does Mr Daniels believe that he can turn his gender fluidity on and off at will? If not, how will he be able to keep to this settlement?

QuietContraryMary · 05/12/2018 15:41

"I don't believe that a situation in Massachusetts, which has been resolved, should be the subject for ridicule on a chat forum."

Well I do. I think you are perhaps misunderstanding the concept of a forum. If you would prefer to discuss a different topic then you can do so on a different thread.

'I don't think other people should be discussing things' is not really a way to participate online.

OP posts:
QuietContraryMary · 05/12/2018 15:41

Mr. Daniels did get her $90,000 payoff, so that was nice for him and her lawyers.

OP posts:
Halfeatentoast · 05/12/2018 15:45

I'm losing track of what's real and what's satire.

AspieAndProud · 05/12/2018 16:52

I have very real objections to people who insist on using the girls toilets one day and the boys toilets the next.

That’s not a ‘gender identity’, that’s just creepy.

Take your paraphilia to the local dogging spot or advertise your services on Craig’s List.

It has no place in schools.

indieshuffle · 05/12/2018 23:40

FFS, Mental illness alert. None of this is healthy. Damn right a psychiatrist is needed. Healthy people just wear what they have to wear, or wear neutral clothes like trouser suits and jumpers. Emphasising sexual attributes at work is what many women have been trying to get away from.

Incidentally, I have been watching the early series of Silent Witness and the main character (Amanda Burton) does not dress in a feminine or particularly fashionable way, and it is noticeable now (but nicely familiar), but at the time in the early 90s I didn't even notice. If only we could go back to that.

BlackShutters · 07/12/2018 02:54

But I don't believe that a situation in Massachusetts, which has been resolved, should be the subject for ridicule on a chat forum.

I live in Mass and I really appreciate you staring a thread about this OP. Don’t think I would have known about this otherwise. Maybe the wokeness is starting to wear off over here. I’m hoping his wife does some googling and finds the Trans Widow thread.

I'm imagining the Facebook posts if my DDs' elementary school principal started changing clothes four times a day. She (no gender issues) would absolutely be mocked. This fool deserves what he gets.

DancelikeEmmaGoldman · 07/12/2018 03:36

It’s not just yuppies taking the puss then, is it? Why isn’t anyone laughing their fatuous “gender fluidity” bullshit right out of a job?

“Our position is that we will have a gender reveal party, but will be waiting until our child is at least 10, and has enough of a conscience and an awareness to make the decision about what gender they are comfortable with when they are ready.”

m.betootaadvocate.com/uncategorized/expecting-brunswick-yuppies-to-wait-until-childs-10th-birthday-for-gender-reveal-party/

(Used to be satire, but now it’s hard to be sure).

Iused2BanOptimist · 07/12/2018 06:38

Funny how it's always people who are well advanced in their career. Head teacher. Senior city banker. Somehow I suspect those further down the ladder are busy working hard and trying to establish themselves and develop a reputation for being good at their job, and probably don't see regular clothing changes as the best way to advance their careers.

JoggerBottom · 07/12/2018 09:49

Could Daniels have perhaps worn 'neutral' clothes to work? I have worn plain trousers, plain shirts and plain black shoes to work many, many times. I just wore what was comfy, smart and appropriate.

Problem solved...

Juells · 07/12/2018 10:06

"He has also agreed not to change clothing during the school day, and to give at least 2 weeks notice of any future changes in his gender fluids."

Haha didn't even get past the OP I laughed so much at that remark 🤣

It just sounds like a MH problem, doesn't it? Changing clothes up to four times a day? Exhausting - who could be arsed?

OlennasWimple · 07/12/2018 10:14

Brookline might be very liberal, but it also has a large conservative Jewish population that might well pause over a man who decides to wear women's clothing at random points of the day

Interesting that part of the return to work agreement was a psychiatric evaluation (and that there were multiple complaints about Daniels before their announcement on their gender identity) www.itemlive.com/2018/12/04/swampscotttransgenderprinciplecanreturnasateacher/

nauticant · 07/12/2018 10:38

Some interesting paragraphs at the tale-end of that piece:

An attorney for Daniels did not return a phone call seeking comment. Daniels, through an earlier statement provided by the school district, said he believed the agreement was a “win-win” that “sends a positive message to the Swampscott community, and particularly our students, about responding with empathy, creativity, compromise and collaboration.”

A spokeswoman for the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) of Massachusetts said their staff attorneys were unavailable for comment on the terms of the agreement on Tuesday.

Jennifer Levi, GLAD (GLBTQ Legal Advocates and Defenders) Transgender Rights project director, was unavailable for comment on Tuesday but said in a statement through a spokeswoman there are “no typical terms” in similar cases as each settlement agreement is designed to resolve a specific conflict between those involved and allow them to move forward without litigation.

Howard Friedman, a Boston civil rights attorney who represents transgender clients, told CommonWealth Magazine the terms of the agreement seemed reasonable but found the requirement of a psychiatrist clearing Daniels to work “offensive”.

Could this be a growing awareness that unthinking support is not a great idea and there has to be a limit on how far the ideology can be pushed?

Horsewithnomane · 07/12/2018 10:46

I would say that if a man was changing into women's clothes randomly throughout the day, there'd be a fair bit of wanking going on, too.

That.

Knicknackpaddyflak · 07/12/2018 12:47

the terms of the agreement seemed reasonable but found the requirement of a psychiatrist clearing Daniels to work “offensive”.

???

The man's (his choice of identity) obviously having problems. Unless the lawyer is implying that this is 'normal' behaviour to be expected of any gender fluid professional, which is deeply offensive! A gender fluid professional I've met simply uses a gender neutral name and an androgenous form of dress in a smart jacket/trousers/shirt which lets them move around in their own personal spectrum, and no colleague or client ever thinks twice because they're a professional who is focused on doing their job.

The biggest story here is the very careful tiptoeing around a massive performance management failure because of the fear of transphobia accusations. If any senior leader in a school is spending their day worrying over which gender expression to perform and changing clothes to support that decision up to four times a day, then there isn't much of them left over to do the job they're taking the salary for. That level of distraction and self focus wouldn't usually be tolerated in a minimum wage paid lunchtime supervisor, never mind the head of a leadership team. From the supportive way its been dealt with, it seems most likely he was having a breakdown or crisis of some kind, in which case the mental health assessment isn't in the least offensive, it's desperately needed and essential to continuing in post, or possibly he has a very poor idea of professional ethics and they've gone too softly softly with performance management to stop it earlier. In which case the mental health assessment is needed to establish whether he is able to improve to a standard the school authority expect.

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