Greatest fear

[Emerencealwayshopeful]

I had a minor operation this afternoon, and on the way home after my mother asked me about what I was most scared about.

And I realised. Bodily autonomy. I’m scared of losing autonomy over my own body and I’m deep into radical feminism world because my interest is centred on the right of all women (people with female biology) to bodily autonomy.

I was in hospital as a teen which I found absolutely terrifying. The doctors were men who rarely worked in the children’s wards and they were less than careful about knocking when they came to check on me. And while my mother had assured me that I was ‘Gillick competent’ and therefore had the right to make decisions about my healthcare mostly my opinions weren’t asked and my questions unanswered.

I wanted control over what happened to my body in labour - and I tried first to get that through the private system (Australia) and then after 2 not-great experiences ended up in homebirthland and my first nest of radical feminists.

My body has been deteriorating over the last few years, and I’m getting used to being asked who is looking after me and being told I’m an inspiration (disabled people who manage school drop offs on time are soooo inspirational). I’m not scared of losing further function though, I’m more afraid of needing to rely on others who might overstep boundaries.

I feel like I’ve reframed my concerns by bringing it back to that single concept. Am I making sense? Is a belief that all people with female biology should have a right to bodily autonomy, to have full say over who touches them and how - is that a logical explanation for why the encroachment of male bodied people into female spaces seems so wrong to me?

You're absolutely making sense.

emerence that resonated for me so much I had a weird all over tingling feeling! That is my single greatest fear too. And probably the root of why I need to see female mps representing me and females making board decisions. It's why I don't feel like I live in a democracy because not one of the parties will allow me the language to speak of my lived experience of being in a female body under a patriarchy.

Your experience in a hospital as a child sounds lonely and frightening. My bodily autonomy was taken from me as a teen by rape and assault. I've also sought to claw it back ever since. For me this meant giving birth without epidurals because I didn't want to be reliant on the whim/speed /availability of another person. Because however many positive experiences I've had since, the past trauma leaves me never quite able to trust that the other person - especially the person "in charge" - will see me as fully human and deserving of bodily autonomy.

Not wrong - I would also add "social autonomy", i.e. the right to do what we want to do (within the bounds of reasonable behaviour of course!)

I work at a University, and many of our students on one of our courses are from Muslim families. The young women mostly do social sciences - the employability from these courses is low, and this market cannot be fixed by such things as student placement years, because their families would not allow it. These poor women are being encouraged to educate themselves, but only to a certain level, because they are seen as chattels of their family, and will then become chattels of their husbands family. The University doesn't press harder because "it's cultural". The women have no choice.

Another (sadly also of Asian Descent) colleague was invited, with her husband, to a male family friend for dinner. They, the friend's Mother in Law, the male friend, and their two male children, sat and were served their dinner in the dining room, by the wife. The wife then had to go and eat her dinner alone in the kitchen, before coming back to clear up the dining room. I asked my friend why she tolerated such treatment of another woman, and she responded it was cultural and she didn't want to upset the friend. She felt she had no choice to challenge the situation, and the wife who was nothing more than a slave, also had no choice.

I don't believe this is just a problem within the Asian community - so many women have little choice in their lives, because "it's cultural", including the colleague who was unable to take up a great job because it is the woman's job to be near the kids/running the home, yet men happily work long distance putting their career before fmaily (yes I know a few women get to do this but they are a rarity).

Women don't have a choice of who invades their personal space, they don't have personal autonomy, and they don't have social autonomy. I believe the women with the most autonomy are those who remain single - what a very sad state of affairs. Whilst this situation suits men, it will never be fixed. That makes me sad, and fearful for my daughter.

Yes - barring the usual "losing my children/loved ones" fears - I totally agree. Bodily autonomy is absolutely paramount.

I also had a bad experience in labour - more than one actually - where I felt my bodily autonomy was not being respected. From little things like a doctor just grabbing my wrist to put a drip in, without even telling me what he was doing/what the drip was - to really horrible things like a doctor pummelling and pressing down on my post-partum stomach, very roughly, and painfully, without even speaking to me first.

The thought of being aged, and in a care home, with no respect for my autonomy terrifies me.

I can see where you are coming from. Bodily autonomy is huge deal to me after a horrific first labour, when a midwife manually dilated me without asking, or any pre warning. It was incredibly painful and brutal, I was only 23, it had a huge impact and was why during my 2nd labour I was a bit of a she wolf when it came to who came anywhere near me.

You are absolutely making sense.

Bodily autonomy is one of the reasons I will probably never have children.
Women's bodily autonomy is routinely taken away during childbirth. Aiming for homebirth only ensures you will have bodily autonomy as long as nothing goes wrong and you have a midwife you know and trust.

There's already so little respect for women's bodily autonomy, I don't want to think about how things will develop in the future.

The thought of being aged, and in a care home, with no respect for my autonomy terrifies me.

Me, too, though that's further away than childbirth at my age.

I hope when I reach that age, some clever and ambitious radfem will have set up a care home by women, for women, where there's respect for women's autonomy.

I lost the use of my right leg due to a neurological condition last year at age 26.

The possibility of becoming disabled before old age exists for all of us.

My third birth was healing. My fourth was empowering. My first two I felt very much like I wasn’t even in the room at various points.

I’m so glad that I’m making sense, and that other people are able to see the puzzle pieces I’m seeing.

I want - within reason - the right to decline and accept medical care, help with ‘day to day living’ and control over who touches me and how. And for all biologically female people to have the same. Even while pregnant or birthing. And I consider the first week after giving birth to be part of the package I think of when I mean birthing.

Women's bodily autonomy is routinely taken away during childbirth. Aiming for homebirth only ensures you will have bodily autonomy as long as nothing goes wrong and you have a midwife you know and trust.

I think the very nature of childbirth is incompatible with bodily autonomy to be honest. At the very least it is severely limited. Labour is not something you can control in any meaningful way, it is an involuntary process that happens the way it is going to happen and there's very little you can do about it. Sure, there are choices you can make, but you are not really in control. I think this is why childbirth can be such a scary thing, especially the first time you go through it.

Obviously the treatment of labouring women by some medical professionals doesn't help at all.

That's not what bodily autonomy means though, MagicMix.
It doesn't mean my body obeys my every command.
It means no third party breaches my bodily boundaries, or disregards my wishes about my body.

It means I cannot be touched without my consent and decisions cannot be made for me, no matter the consequences. And that goes so far as including an acceptance that my decisions may result in harm, but that as an adult with capacity, that choice is mine to make and for no other person to overrule.

Childbirth is a great example of when women's bodily autonomy should be respected (but sadly often isn't)

OK, thanks for the clarification. My understanding of the term was clearly simplistic and I misapplied it there. I just experienced childbirth as a complete loss of control over my body, which I did find frightening.

You’re right.

All of this boils down to a woman’s right to say NO.