The misogyny continues in Manchester's Gay Village

[WeSeeYou]

This summer we had one of the presenters at Manchester Pride threatening to drag lesbians off "by their saggy old tits" for protesting against the cotton ceiling:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3350481-Homophobic-attack-against-lesbians-at-Manchester-Pride

Then we had posters going up across venues around the Village stating "no terfs on our turf" (with terf of course including any lesbian who won't have sex with someone with a penis who identifies as a woman):

twitter.com/elletorrito/status/1051534044624822272

And now as a festive Christmas event for the LGBT community they are showing Tangerine:

www.facebook.com/events/532052457263927/

This is the film, billed as a "transgender revenge movie" that was protested by Lesbian Nation on its release for its violent misogyny. (Natal) women are referred to as "fish" and "bitches" throughout and are beaten and abused by transwomen for laughs:

<a class="break-all" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20170718170356/gendertrender.wordpress.com/2015/11/15/tangerine-london-film-premiere-hit-by-lesbian-nation-protest/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">web.archive.org/web/20170718170356/gendertrender.wordpress.com/2015/11/15/tangerine-london-film-premiere-hit-by-lesbian-nation-protest/

The LGBT community has always had a massive problem with misogyny - I got used to being sidelined, mocked and subject to misogynistic comments from gay men (e,g, the ubiquitious "ew, fish" when they encountered a lesbian) but recently, with the massively expanded trans/queer contingent (beyond the transsexuals which we have always had) and especially since the London Pride protests, the tone has completely changed. It's not just dismissive and disdainful of women and in particular lesbians, it is openly, aggressive, violent hatred. I never used to feel scared going to the Village but I do now. It's the place I least feel safe as a lesbian in Manchester.

That's awful. I hadn't heard of Tangerine and had a google.

I thought the below article was quite illuminating. There's a whole section on how the author find the violence against the female character to be 'satisfying'.

White feminists might be inclined to read what Sin-dee does as violence against women but Sin-dee is not in a position of power over Dinah. And it was satisfying to watch.
www.autostraddle.com/a-trans-woman-of-color-responds-to-the-trauma-of-tangerine-301607/

I am so tired of this 'She was asking for it' narrative against women. I'm not in Manchester but that would make me nervous too about visiting the village. It's bloody disgraceful how lesbians are being bullied and intimidated in what should be their community.

Oh no. This is so wrong.

Though i’m not confident any more in public bodies acting on their equality duty appropriately, I would still suggest contacting the council who are at least keen to be seen as hot on equality: www.manchester.gov.uk/info/200041/equality_and_diversity

Also the EHRC: it is their job to monitor and advise on this exact type of situation: (though they are promoting the FLAG study on their Twitter at the moment which is a completely nonsensical piece of ‘research’ unless you believe sex and gender are the same thing.) so not very hopeful of action but they should not be allowed to ignore this.
mobile.twitter.com/EHRC/status/1060167235191406596

And UN women who are acting on VAWG and want women’s stories: mobile.twitter.com/UN_Women/status/1070144489963118592

It would also be great if this erosion of lesbian spaces and places was more documented and researched because it doesn’t seem that the public sector bodies are doing much about it. Obviously some media coverage would be helpful.

Sorry to @JonnyBest but he may have media ideas.

You might get somewhere with feminist academics and historians- there are threads on here - will find one.

Also there is a field of academia which looks at spaces used by LGB and T people:
www.ssqrg.rgs.org/fellow-research-register/

I can’t say which if any of these academics would be gender critical enough to get it but you could approach them and suggest this topic as a research project.?

You won’t be the only one feeling this way. I would be horrified to see anti- TERF posters up everywhere in the supposed gay village. What a load of sexist, narcissistic aggressive shit.

And if you feel immediately unsafe in a given situation, contact the police.

OP

This thread for example had academics on it (? who might be able to set up some place to gather views/experiences of lesbians around this current atmosphere or could advise on who/how this could be done?)

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3335045-Professor-Rosa-Freedman

Or contact get the L Out
getthelout.wordpress.com/contact/

I don’t know if any of this is helpful to you OP you might just have wanted to come on here to talk, sorry! I just find it so awful that women are being treated like this and forced out of public spaces that they should feel comfortable in. I know it’s never been perfect but this sounds like a whole other level.

This makes me think i wouldnt want to step foot in the village as a straight woman either, after all, lesbians dont wear speshul arm bands yet, so what they are doing is creating a penis-havers-zone. Not only are women-only zones now being invaded, but women are being blocked/harassed out of other zones. When will the world wake up?

Im Mancunian and sad to hear this. I always thought gay and lesbian people were both welcome in the village.

Unfortunately I'm not surprised to read this. My employer has an area office in Manchester and we had to attend LGBTQ equality training. It was run by a local organisation and was heavily biased towards the T. They barely mentioned anything else.

I was half expecting a load of TRA misogynists to protest FiLiA in Salford but it seemed to go under their radar.

I might have left the odd sticker in Canal Street though.

Thanks for the responses. I'll have a think about the suggestions for people to contact, although I'm not hopeful that there's much that can be done. Unfortunately, I don't think the Council will help as some of their councillors are promoting this stuff:
twitter.com/JonConnorLyons/status/1048559555213492225

Wow.

That twitter thread is eye opening. Suggest that is screen shotted. An elected Labour councillor using the word TERF?

A sexist, homophobic term of abuse. And which is encouraging the silencing and demonisation of women just for asking questions or having opinions. That’s appalling.

OP the Local government association www.local.gov.uk issue guidance to local authorities - I wonder if they might want to do so now, about supporting women’s rights to speak in this climate and evidencing the threat to lesbian spaces and women’s free association by this dogma.

www.local.gov.uk

LGA will also have some kind of equality policy which i’m going to assume does not support women being silenced. I notice from the LGA site that they are supporting women’s suffrage 100 years- a victory for women over oppression based on their sex.

All the Manchester and Salford MPs should know about this exclusion of lesbians but also the support it seems to be getting at official levels. Plus the Secretary of State for housing, communities and local government. (James Brokenshire MP) should know.

This is a local issue in a literal sense (because women should feel free to use the places they want to use in Manchester) but also it’s a national issue. This is absolutely the logical conclusion of this toxic dogma which is making any non-compliant women fair game (because they are ‘TERFS’)

Note the language used in the meme that was tweeted approvingly as having been put up around Manchester venues which purport to be lesbian-friendly:

‘Will be removed and barred’

Not: ‘will be asked to leave’. Or just ‘will be barred henceforth’ or ‘is not welcome’.

They will be physically removed.

OK so who the fuck gave venues and their door staff the right to touch women, let alone physically remove them just for peacefully asking questions or having an opinion?

I think we know the answer- male fucking entitlement gave them that authority.

They may as well have written that women who do not say the right things should be ‘dragged off by their saggy old tits’.

It’s absolutely chilling and totalitarian. This is incitement to silencing and manhandling women. (Deliberate choice of words there)

You have only to look at the Dr Rosa Freeman threads to see what is happening to women who speak up.

The TERF label is used by sexist angry men as a way to ‘other’ women so it’s then OK for those men to terrorise women. It’s unacceptable and an appalling message for any elected man (or women) to promote.

OP just to say, I’m not suggesting that you should have to do anything personally about this. I totally get it if you don’t want to be exposed like that. I’m really hoping there might be women’s groups who will take it up though.

Also the picture of that meme needs to be clicked on to see the full message about TERFS being removed- it’s not just the cutesy heart picture with the scary message .. it gets worse and more specific.

This makes me think i wouldnt want to step foot in the village as a straight woman either, after all, lesbians dont wear speshul arm bands yet, so what they are doing is creating a penis-havers-zone. Not only are women-only zones now being invaded, but women are being blocked/harassed out of other zones. When will the world wake up?

It feels like a return to public and private spheres where men/penis havers are welcome anywhere they choose to be whilst women are ' allowed ' into public spaces only by the grace of penis owners else they ought to stay in private spheres - no presence, no voice. It's basically taking us back in time and it's nowhere near as fun as Marty McFly made it look.

Do straight men get any abuse at all if they refuse to have sex with a bepenised trans women? If not, why not?

My guess would be they don't and the reason they don't is misogyny, also women are generally smaller weaker and easier to intimidate and overpower.

Note the language used in the meme that was tweeted approvingly as having been put up around Manchester venues which purport to be lesbian-friendly:

‘Will be removed and barred’

Not: ‘will be asked to leave’. Or just ‘will be barred henceforth’ or ‘is not welcome’.

They will be physically removed

OK so who the fuck gave venues and their door staff the right to touch women, let alone physically remove them just for peacefully asking questions or having an opinion?

This is definitely already happening elsewhere in Manchester:

twitter.com/Docstockk/status/1068977991227777024

I believe Helen Steel sustained an injury as she was physically removed by a group of male thugs.

I don't know if this has happened in the Village yet. There have been beatings of lesbians in gay/queer areas elsewhere ( www.afterellen.com/general-news/559907-queer-identified-women-jump-lesbian-outside-of-a-drag-show ) but most women would understandably be reluctant to come forward about their abuse for fear of further reprisals. And, many lesbians, myself included now avoid (formerly) gay spaces and try to meet under the radar elsewhere.

Do straight men get any abuse at all if they refuse to have sex with a bepenised trans women?

Strangely enough, the targets seem to be almost exclusively lesbian women being bullied by people formerly known as straight men to accept their penis.

That isn't even the correct rainbow in the heart.

I didn't spot that!

Hostility towards lesbians, because of their same-sex orientation, is a hate crime.

I think that Lesbians need to report incidents of hostility, in all its forms, to Trust Vision report-it.org.uk/your_police_force

I also believe that the Greater Manchester Police needs to be made aware of how unsafe the gay village has become for lesbians. One way of doing this is to meet with, tweet or write to GMP's Pride Network outlining the problems and raising their awareness.

Inspector Jacqui Prest is based at Oldham but is Deputy Chair of the GMP Pride Network involved in 'outreach' work, on a voluntary basis.

The problems are being hidden because lesbians are vacating spaces and going underground. The hate incidents (posters, harassment etc) are invisible because they are not being reported and recorded.

Making inroads into the ignorance starts with small, courageous steps.

Pam excellent

Why would trans women watch/approve of a film that portrays them as violent thugs?

In my experience it is usually men who like to watch that shit.

Fancy them having that in common. (Sarcasm emoji)

Hostility towards lesbians, because of their same-sex orientation, is a hate crime.

I think that Lesbians need to report incidents of hostility, in all its forms, to Trust Vision report-it.org.uk/your_police_force

I also believe that the Greater Manchester Police needs to be made aware of how unsafe the gay village has become for lesbians. One way of doing this is to meet with, tweet or write to GMP's Pride Network outlining the problems and raising their awareness.

If I can report it anonymously I will do. I'm pretty sure GMP's Pride Network shared the 'TERF' poster itself so there's no point contacting them, in fact it could be a risky thing to do.

If I can report it anonymously I will do. I'm pretty sure GMP's Pride Network shared the 'TERF' poster itself so there's no point contacting them, in fact it could be a risky thing to do

I can understand how you feel about GMP after that incident.

Their first apology was less than useless and they had to make a second apology. They admitted ignorance of the meaning of 'TERF'. They got their arses handed to them on Twitter and some people made mention of the plight of lesbians in the Gay Village. I'm not convinced that a few tweets will have made the position clear to the police - especially since the person behind that particular twitter account is a gay man.

On the question of whether it is safe to approach the people behind the Twitter account, they say: We remain absolutely committed to working with partners to tackle this abhorrent crime, and support those who suffer from it That's you, that is! You have a protected characteristic.

A face to face meeting is always the best way to explore solutions with the police - especially when it comes to hate crimes. They need to be told that they are failing and that lesbians have lost confidence in GMP. Lesbians are still reeling after the incident at Manchester Pride and after the police published hateful material directed at lesbians.

Maybe you don't feel that you can do that, yourself. Fair enough. Maybe there is a lurker, or another resident of Greater Manchester reading this thread who would be up for it.

I'd do it, but I live hundreds of miles away.

Failing that, I would direct @GMPPrideNetwork to this thread.

This thread for example had academics on it (? who might be able to set up some place to gather views/experiences of lesbians around this current atmosphere or could advise on who/how this could be done?)

It looks like there is some work going on on lesbian exclusion in our new 'inclusive' queer community:

www.academia.edu/37906812/Queer_Inclusion_or_Lesbian_Exclusion_Project_Update_Nov_2018_

Quick update for the record: (and since the other threads on London Pride 2018 and the peaceful and non-hateful Get the L out protest seem to have been zapped ):

www.pinknews.co.uk/2018/11/30/pride-in-london-2019-security-hijack-dates/

I missed this article at the end of last year but the theme continues: Penis News reports that London Pride 2019 will be stepping up its security to stop protesters.

LGBT groups should be calling for lesbians to still be able to peacefully protest for their rights at Pride, in response to this ‘upping of security’.

Impact report from the organisers:
prideinlondon.org/impact-report-2018