A conspiracy theory

[incallthebloodytime]

I get sucked down a rabbit hole into conspiracy theories from time to time, but disturbingly some of them actually turn out to be true

In psychiatry especially there have been quite a few experiments which were done without the knowledge or consent of patients or their parents

Supposedly we are all a bit more ethical these days but I'm not talking about 100 years ago... in our lifetime this has been a thing that has happened. Not just in the US, here too.

It would be incredibly unethical to experiment on children, nobody is going to pass that one are they?

But do you think perhaps some of these doctors/charities etc are being manipulated into performing that experiment hidden in plain sight? It's rare you have human subjects who actually want to be the mouse 🐭

(Obviously I mean re child transitioners)

No; for one thing if it was actually all some sort of experiment then it would be crucial to record data accurately. The opposite appears to be true, there's obfuscation.

Once I would have said "not in this country" but then I heard about the Webberleys and what they've been up to. Nothing would surprise me now.

A conspiracy which results in prosecution and conviction doesn't sound too convincing!

If anything it is a social experiment, which aims at changing or masking people‘s perception of of sex, possibly leading towards a society that eradicates what it means to be human and ultimately accepts transhumans and AI as equal. (I can already see the powers that be programming voting preferences into those robots, once they have equal rights. And you bet they‘ll protect AI‘s against the unwashed masses, making a song and dance about why AI rights trump mere human rights ).

Adult males need kids to transition to prove it isn't a kink.

it was actually all some sort of experiment then it would be crucial to record data accurately

^^ Strongly agree with this - this sort of shenanigans is no better than a series of poorly-observed and documented case studies with no agreed protocol.

If anything it is a social experiment, which aims at changing or masking people‘s perception of of sex

^^ I see it as large-scale experimentation in social conformity with a side-order of civil disruption and totalitarianism.

In say 30 years time though... could they complete a study by surveying those who have taken these drugs?

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/magazine-36803067

The doctor has died or I think he might have faced conviction...

In say 30 years time though... could they complete a study by surveying those who have taken these drugs

It's not being run by an institution so it would have to be done by tracing people who had been treated by particular doctors and then doing follow-up.

A survey is nowhere near the same as having repeated testing over time. And, as has been demonstrated by the actual clinical work that has been done, people have the right not to participate in surveys or to allow their clinical data to be used.

The survey could only be people who consented to participate in the survey - and it would always be unclear what actual medical or other interventions they'd had. Dosages, actual medications, devices - they could all be very different which is why survey data would be effectively useless.

But talking of conspiracy theory. Given my background I regularly read the German speaking press. And what do I see today on the ORF (which basically amounts to the Austrian version of the BBC)? A heartfelt article about why we need more unisex toilets in order to be more inclusive to the 0.5% intersex people, who (according to the article) face the problem that they are called out when useing single sex toilets for not looking like a particular sex (I actually can't believe I am reading this, but here it is:).

'Tinou Ponzer ist intergeschlechtlich. Die Geschlechtsmerkmale entsprechen nicht den gängigen Vorstellungen eines männlichen oder weiblichen Körpers. Im Alltag bedeutet das Probleme. „Mir zum Beispiel kann man es ansehen. Und ich werde zum Beispiel auch in Klos damit konfrontiert, dass ich hier am falschen Ort bin. Aber wo soll ich denn hingehen?“ '

'Tinou Ponzer is intersex. The markers of sex do not conform to the general ideas of a male or female body. In every day life this means trouble. „In my case, for example, one can see it. I get confronted in toilets that I am in the wrong place. Bit where else can I go?“ '

The intersex person Tinou Ponzer speaking is the same one who fought and won for the introduction of a 'third sex' by the way. So it very much looks like in Austria a different pretext is used to try implementing the policies the anglosphere introduces for transgender people - the abolition of single sex spaces (which is what Ponzer calls for).

Now if that isn't fishy, I don't know. Different reasons, tailored to different societies in order to achieve one and the same goal. (And we only know, because intersex people in USA and UK are smart enough to relentlessly call out the TRA bullshit and refuse to be instrumentalized).

wien.orf.at/news/stories/2949321/

How about the "Breastfeeding Man" experiment that was recently reported? (Of course the media didn't call it an experiment, but an amazing breakthrough etc)
The wonderful 'La Scapigliata' - a medical doctor writing anonymously - debunks this very thoroughly, exposing it as the totally unethical experimentation on a baby that it actually was.
lascapigliata8.wordpress.com/2018/03/26/analysis-of-study-of-induced-lactation-in-trans-identified-man/

My thoughts on this, btw, are that there was never a baby at all (the experimenters doctors never saw the baby, or spoke to the man's partner) and that it was a shameless publicity stunt by a transgender clinic, almost certainly facilitating a delusional man in his autogynephiliac fantasy.

Adult males need kids to transition to prove it isn't a kink

This, with the added benefit of these kids being made sexless due to drugs, in combination with bringing "kink" into the LGBT+ umbrella, in combination with "sex positivity" and anti-kinkshaming rhetoric.

Adult males need kids to transition to prove it isn't a kink

This is the most likely explanation IMO. But I have also considered it is what deepwatersolo suggested - a bizarre social experiment, designed to disorientate and make everyone doubt what they thought they knew to be true.

As for the participation of the medical establishment, there are doubtless some people amongst them that want to see to what extent they can make people 'change sex'. Just as in any profession, there are people who want to push boundaries and do something nobody has done before. I don't think everyone in medicine is driven by a pure desire to heal and help people.

Adult males need kids to transition to prove it isn't a kink

This, with the added benefit of these kids being made sexless due to drugs, in combination with bringing "kink" into the LGBT+ umbrella, in combination with "sex positivity" and anti-kinkshaming rhetoric.

In combination with kids being deemed able to consent to medical sterilisation, therefore able to consent to other things...

In combination with kids being deemed able to consent to medical sterilisation, therefore able to consent to other things...

In combination with the full coattailing and appropriation of a movement that spent decades fighting against suspicions that it's actually pedophilic in nature, but which was never talking about this group actually...

I think a few strands combine. I do think there’s an angle of social control. If you can get people to disbelieve or not disbelieve but act as if they do out of fear or pressure something so utterly self evident as humans can’t change sex then you can do anything.

How far can you push people? Trumps kids in cages was a similar experiment I think. What will an electorate tolerate? Remember you don’t need to have people literally starving and in fear to be beaten down. People who are starving and threatened like that will fight back. The most effective way of controlling people is to take care of their physical needs just enough, then add in a little precariousness - so people are comfy, cheap booze, cheap telly. But just a little on edge - low job security, don’t want to rock the boat. Debt helps too.

Lower people’s ability to fight back intellectually. Social media, buzzfeed type news - no in depth analysis, just soundbitrs designed to elicit an emotion.

Create a culture where ‘boffins’ are mocked. Neuter the universities. Create an atmosphere where students are told that objectionable concepts and speech can actually harm them. encourage no platforming. Discourage debate. Encourage trial by popularity via social media pile ons.

All that results in young people who do not engage in depth or THINK about what they believe. They just believe it. Anyone who doesn’t believe it is a baddie. Anyone who does is a goodie.

I think also the alt right attacks on two fronts - mra types on sex lines and the classical alt right on race. There’s a lot of white male rage to be exploited - men who would have succeeded just because of what they are a generation ago now find themselves competing in a global pool. And find themselves wanting.

Adult males need kids to transition to prove it isn't a kink

This, with the added benefit of these kids being made sexless due to drugs

Not just sexless, pre pubescent. It’s a paedo’s wet dream.

And yes, some very unsavoury Elements have piggybacked onto this in regards to child safety.

It’s a perfect storm of Very Bad Things.

It's destabilising - children no longer trust/believe what they can see to be true/real. Destabilisation of societies is a known tactic.

It removes safeguarding for children in several ways and leaves them open to predators.

It provides a life long source of revenue for Drs and big pharma.

a bizarre social experiment, designed to disorientate and make everyone doubt what they thought they knew to be true.

I can't stand the story because it is often used, inappropriately, to deprecate others...

That said, that scenario always reminds me of Kornbluth's scifi story, Marching Morons because it succeeds by undermining people's memories and certainties.

mysite.du.edu/~treddell/3780/Kornbluth_The-Marching-Morons.pdf

One of the characters, Mrs Garvy, remembers that rockets crash so she is sceptical when she sees references to trips to Venus as a desirable vacation destination. Nonetheless, well-planted media propaganda undermines her certainty. As does her husband's certainty that she's wrong because women are unlikely to pay appropriate attention to current events.

Start quotation

Well, I thought ya couldn't get to Venus. I thought they just had that
one rocket thing that crashed on the Moon."
"Aah, women don't keep up with the news," said Garvy righteously,
subsiding again.
"Oh," said his wife uncertainly.
And the next day, on Henry's Other Mistress, there was a new character who had just breezed in: Buzz Rentshaw, Master Rocket Pilot of the Venus run.
On Henry's Other Mistress, "the broadcast drama about you and your
neighbors, folksy people,ordinary people, real people." Mrs. Garvy listened with amazement over a cooling cup of coffee as Buzz made hay of her hazy convictions.
...
She was a stubborn woman, but it occurred to her that she
was very sick indeed. She didn't want to worry her husband. The next day she quietly made an appointment with the family freud.
In the waiting-room she picked up a fresh new copy of Readers
Pablum and put it down with a faint palpitation. The lead article, according to the table of contents on the cover, was titled "The Most Memorable Venusian I Ever Met."
...
Like many cures of mental disorders, Mrs. Garvy's was achieved largely by self-treatment. She disciplined herself sternly out of the crazy notion that there had been only one rocket ship and that one a failure. She could join without wincing, eventually, in any conversation on the desirability of Venus as a place to retire, on its fabulous floral profusion. Finally she went to Venus.
End quotation

She was, of course, by participating in the trip, also participating in the propaganda programme (the travellers didn't know the trip hadn't left Earth. And, it's used to persuade people to compete for space on Venus colonisation transports that are the cover for an extreme eugenics and depopulation programme.

„In my case, for example, one can see it. I get confronted in toilets that I am in the wrong place. Bit where else can I go?“

Where's that supposed to have happened? In places where there is no big debate on transgenders wanting to use the opposite sex's toilets, or even in places where there IS one such debate, (but most people are blissfully unaware of it) most people are going to assume that whoever uses a toilet belongs there.

People won't challenge a person they aren't sure doesn't belong there. At least in countries where people don't want to appear rude, and I am told Austria is one of those countries where politeness is valued.

If I see an androgynous person in the women's loo, I assume this person must be a woman.

And I am told men don't even look at each other while using the pissoir, so how would they be able to get a long enough look at a person who just goes straight for the cubicles?

There's people I look at and am not sure whether they are male or female, but I never have met a person I looked at and thought: "Wow, this person looks like they are definitely not female and definitely not male all at the same time."

So it seems rather unlikely to me that someone would be told they're wrong in both the women's loo AND the men's loo.

Ok my original conspiracy theory has evolved based on this thread

It's strange to find yourself on a conspiracy thread and feel your tin foil hat might actually be worth using

Where's that supposed to have happened?

I also doubt this story. There is a picture of this intersex person who said this happened and also watched an interview. It is very hard to imagine they would be challenged either way. Maybe with the beard in the woman's (without beard: clearly no challenge)? But even such a slight beard in women is not that rare.
It all sounds very unconvincing and strange how the transagenda is trotted out with the intersex argument (presumably because Austria is too socially conservative for the trans-angle - even during the long periods of social-democrat led governments.)

Thinking about it, it would be in intersex people's best interest to campaign for clear sex segregation in toilets.

Because it is only since I have read about transgenderism and self-ID and all that, that I eye tall women in the changing rooms suspiciously, wondering whether their breasts are the result of surgery or artificial estrogene.

(I still never say anything, because I never am 100% sure and don't want to be rude.)

In a country where people follow the rules of sex segregated spaces, an androgynous looking person can use female and male facilities.

People will assume they are the correct sex for that space and not say anything because most women are very sensitive about looking to masculine, and most men would be deadly insulted to be told they look like a woman.

If people who are clearly one sex or the other suddenly start to walk into the facilities intended for the other sex, people will become paranoid.

That's not just bad for intersex people, it also means that trans people who previously considered themselves to "pass" because they looked just androgynous enough people wouldn't want to say anything, will now be challenged (or groveled to like invading enemy soldiers) and realize that they look only androgynous, and not clearly like the sex they want to look like.

And if or when things go back to normal, intersex and trans people will need their own facilities because people won't accept someone who looks "just a bit strange" into their sex segregated facilities.

Trust, once lost, is hard to rebuild.