LGB and T?

[2rebecca]

Interesting development by Middlesbrough council. Transaware see it as positive but I wonder if it's the start of a separation/ distancing policy. There is no logical reason why transsexuals should be connected to LGB. Having swimming, running and transsexuals makes as much sense. www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tees-46418045?fbclid=IwAR2OWWjgLCQope20KyEkD74fxwAV1CGAsMdmWj8knyhp-SqqP19d9PT_kmI

That is interesting. I wonder how people will take it?

It would seem the homosexual communities are distancing themselves here, and managed to do it in a way that hasn't caused backlash

im going to agree with CaptainKirksSpookyghost

Still plenty of time for backlash, once they realise the significance - that this restores the possibility of talking about t being in opposition to lgb.

Interesting. In a way it makes sense, because of course you can be same or different sex-attracted AND trans if you're acknowledging that birth sex dictates sexuality, not gender expression. There is an intersection of sexuality and gender expression if you hold that sex and gender are separate categories.

The cynic in me says "oh hey, two separate pots of money to be applied for".

"But the Middlesbrough Council panel said it wanted to differentiate between sexual preference and gender identity."
It's not a preference, it's an orientation! Preference makes it sound like a choice.

But yes, very interesting. What inspired them to even talk about it, let alone implement a change? Although they might have just been trying to head LGBTQQIP2SAA off at the pass (because you just know some wokeazoid will have been pushing for that).

Hmm.

I don't know what to make of it, to be honest. But I also bridled at preference.

I should think that councils are now reviewing the advice from pro-trans advisers, together with their promotion of self i/d policies and the trans 'toolkits' that they have promoted to schools.

It is slowly dawning on them that 'transgender identity' is contentious - particularly where it involves children.

There are major council elections in May. Thousands of seats are up for grabs. 'Transgender identity' will become an election issue and the local political parties need to smarten up their acts, as far as me and mine are concerned.

Missing the point but... wtf is 2 spirit?!

Afaik, 2 spirit is a Native American belief where someone has male and female spirits in their body.

I don't think it has anything to do with current trans beliefs

Two-spirit is a name for a third gender role in some indigenous North American peoples, but my understanding is it's a modern name applied to an older concept. It's nothing that ought to apply to anyone from outside that culture.

Yes. It's used in North America, where it is relevent, but I would be surprised to see it used in the UK.

Transaware see it as positive but I wonder if it's the start of a separation/ distancing policy.

I don't think Middlesbrough Council have had much of a part to play in it as the whole thing seems to have been lead by the co-founder of TransAware, Ellie Lowther. And I don't think it's a tactic just an honestly held belief that sexual orientation and gender identity are distinct.

I don't know, but Ellie Lowther seems like a good egg and does a lot of grunt work to help people who are trans without politicking the shit out of it.

Ah, I've used to full name twice and now I look like a weird fan stalker.

Never thought I'd say this, but I'm all for the separation. I've been out as lesbian for decades now and the LGB (more recently LGBT) movement has long been my 'home', somewhere I felt validated and comfortable in my skin. Not any more. I feel more and more alienated by the commercialism, corporatisation and rampant individualism of Pride events, and the TRAs seem to have taken over whatever's left with their misogyny and lesbo-phobia.

Yes. It's used in North America, where it is relevent, but I would be surprised to see it used in the UK.

The UK police use it in their "trans toolkit".
Trans Guidance for the Policing Sector - Glossary of Terms

TRANS
An umbrella term to describe people whose gender isn't the same as, or doesn't sit comfortably with, the sex they were assigned at birth. Trans people may describe themselves using one or more of a wide variety of terms, including (but not limited to) transgender, transsexual, gender-queer (GQ), gender-fluid, non-binary, gendervariant, cross-dresser, genderless, agender, non-gendered, third gender, two-spirit, bi-gender, trans man, trans woman, trans masculine, trans feminine and neutrois.

I suppose there's a tiny chance that the UK police might encounter a visitor from North America who uses that term to describe themselves. Surely no one without an indigenous North American background would be crass enough to use that term to describe themselves?

Certain fluffy self-improvement groups like to dip into the native store, and rip off yet another Amerindian concept, and two spirit animal is the latest.

Appropriation in the name of anti-colonialism. Confused is the nicest thing that can be said about it.

Outright racism is what others call it.

Name changed for this.

Transaware do some good work in the area, so whilst I am pleased on the surface that there has been the distinction, I am not sure if the motive is actually to get the T even higher on the agenda.

I don't know, I am really torn on this and have been for quite a long time, I struggle to see how Transware and the TRA's fit or don't fit. It makes my head hurt sometimes, the personal experience of one and the overwhelming arrogance of the other. When does support become political campaigning?

I think I would rather they influenced local policy than the likes of Mermaids though.

www.google.com/amp/s/culturallyboundgender.wordpress.com/2013/03/09/toward-an-end-to-appropriation-of-indigenous-two-spirit-people-in-trans-politics-the-relationship-between-third-gender-roles-and-patriarchy/amp/

A piece explaining Two Spirit.