"When mum becomes dad, and...". etc

[KayM2]

Yet ANOTHER programme about transgender issues was on TV last night, this one partially centred on a f to m parent.

I'd be interested in genuine views on this. Apologies if there is another thread; I could not see one.

I'm about 15 mins in.

Not seen anything other than stereo types so far. and alot of indulgence.

I found the surgery scares quite upsetting. If it makes Felix happy fair enough but the idea of perfectly healthy breasts removed on someone so young....

I wonder if they know what they will end up.

Whether they know they will have female and male anatomy on top of the surgicl/hormone induced additions or ineffective assignment surgery.

They are just so young

The mum/chikd almost seek to be trying to convince themselves nore than anything else... There's it of sadness in the eyes of the daughter. She cant look at pictures of her mum without worrying how upsetting it is for her dad

Ok so more from Felix, I'm now honestly wondering why happened.

His figure is still quite feminine. Skating they look like a girls with no breasts skating. They arent sure on surgery yet so honestly I'm wondering why the breasts Seemed to be the enemy. Think we all know the answer to that really.

Parents doing cosmetic surgery to change their body, to change those things that their child has inherited, inevitably setting the child on that same path of surgery, is irresponsible.

If you hate your body so much, don't have children.

I'm working my way through it. Stopping every few mins to have a think.

Can't help thinking that in these cases the ripples affect many others. The offspring who appear, for example. Are they old enough to make sound decisions about whether to show their faces? . They have to go to school. And friends would visit the house. Or not, as can happen. And can happen when there is a disabled sibling. Being loyal is all very well, but they are affected too.

Young children who have never known the person as anyone else, it seems to be a different situation. Mostly.

Troubling. Life HAS troubles, we know that. I had a friend who had a father with the same thing that ran in Woodie Guthrie's family.Which I have forgotten the name of, because I am old. Sometimes she said, you can come in, sometimes she said don't. It affected her whole life. It was one of the things that her friends knew about her; Linda was the girl with" the father" was mentioned before where she worked.

In programmes like this the voices are always an issue, aren't they? .

It's a bit leap too isn't it. To agree to go on camera. This film I felt was tastefully done. The people talking did so with intelligence and certainly and acceptance. Bit truthfully it still didn't hide the fact that so that screamed out was stereotypes and performances and the desperate need for validation in some way.

Still all seems such an empty outcome.

Big leap

I couldn't watch this, as my ex may legally be a woman (I think he has a GRC), but in no way will that ever make him my daughter's mother.

He got me pregnant in the conventional way with sperm from his penis. I can be civil about most things but I would never tolerate him appropriating motherhood.

DD has a mother- me, and a Father- him.

tinsel-angel. I did not realise your very close connection to this. Sorry if my posts have offended in any way.

I have known a few late transitioners with children. Without exception they have rejected the idea that they are now "mothers", and said so their children and to others who assumed they would want to be spoken of as such.

To them, and me, it would seem to be distasteful to do that, and not fair to the child, or the mother. The then 12 year old daughter of a friend was asked by someone, " is that your mother? " and the reply was " it's my dad, actually, but you wouldn't understand". That girl is now at UNi, and now lives with her father, whom she gets on with very well, as they are very similar in many ways.

But.... the child may have spoken up very well, but was in a very difficult place then, wasn't she?

Didn't watch it. I did listen to Megan Murphy's interview of a transwidow on feminist current, though, and I think what irks me a lot is this common demand to rewrite history, that seems to be so pervasive. Ans Tinsel said, the person who fathered her child was not a woman at the time and therefore is and remains the kid's father, no matter what, even if you should buy into TWAW and whatnot. Same goes for mothers.

It is not fair to your kids to deny reality like that.

Agreed. 100%

I'm not offended Kay, but hopefully now you can grasp why others on the board kindly consider my opinion carries some weight on the issues affecting the wives of late transitioning men.

T-A;
I don't think I have ever thought that your opinion did not carry weight. I'd like to think that all opinions, sincerely held and thought about, carry weight. Even mine, and certainly yours.

While I am in an apologising mood, and I often am, I had a pm discussion this afternoon in which I was told that my manner was masculine and overbearing; I mentioned that my sisters had a similar manner, and more so, and that my manner stems at least in part from a " cover" which I created to mask an early stammer and a twitch, , and a conviction that I was uniquely dislikable. :-) If one speaks... very...slowly the stammer can be got round, I found.

And, to be fair, I am art college and education course -trained, not academic at all, and I do try to find careful, thought through words which can make me appear over-didactic. The word "I" appears a lot.

I have not yet seen the whole programme, as I keep stopping and re winding. It is painful watching. Really painful.

For general info; it is usually film companies that want to show makeup / clothes and hairdressing sessions. It gives them something to film.

For general info; it is usually film companies that want to show makeup / clothes and hairdressing sessions. It gives them something to film

Doesn't that really kinda prove there's not much else to film.

Wasn't the mum/dad a Dr? Would have been.interesting to address how that affected the patients. Would he be able to perform examinations without a chaperone?

If people ask for a male or female Dr then what happened then.

How have patients reacted in that when they were discussing personal issues were they still comfortable doing so having known them previously as a woman.

I guess the program was meant to be kinda light and gentle but it would be nice of things were a bit more truthful and the real issues addressed. Never mind what they wore are they open witg the people the meet in intimate situations.

Too much makimg it look like hair and make up and gentle harmless people

the Felix bit.... watching through my fingers. Trying to be fair, we all know that editing a whole load of stuff down to a segment can make things misleading; perhaps her diffidence in part of it was a normal nervousness in front of a camera. But Felix looked to me, superficially as it must be, as if he/ she was not at all sure that what he/she had done was " the right thing". It is edited in such a way that it suggests to me that "she" had been in retreat from the "male stare and the pressures of being a young woman in a unkind world.

I found that part very upsetting indeed. Don't do it, don't go any further, I said to the TV. Unhelpfully.

Oh this is just awful..... there MUST be some contagion going on, surely?

Yes it was the bit at the end where it said Felix was enjoying experimenting with his gender identity.

I wanted to scream " but how can you experiment when you removed your breasts. Experiment is play around not permanent life altering stuff"

How did they get through the Dr..

Woodie Guthrie had Huntington’s,I think?

That's the one.

Still working through this. The main point of interest is "the father" who used to be "the mother". Though the situation isn't that simple. Could it ever be? The children call him "dad" but also they call their biological father, who they see, " dad".

On the face of it, this man seems to be what he says he is, and what his daughter says he is, which is much more settled and happier. We cannot know, but it seems so.

Some things and his daughter said were engrossing;

(1) The testosterone had changed how he felt about situations, and other people's problems. Empathy was not so instant. ( or somesuch)

(2) He was experiencing " male privilege"; eg if he spoke, people listened more. ( and the voice was not an imposing , " manly " one) He was given more " instant respect". For those who have not seen the programme , he is a very small man, but a very male looking beardy, balding one.

I don't think any of us will be surprised at this, but it is so unusual to hear a f to m person sharing that experience.

This thread has not blossomed! I wonder if this is because of one or more of the below? Or something else?

Firstly, there have been so many of these programmes recently. Thread fatigue?

Secondly it deals ( if only in part) with a middle aged f to m parent. This is not an area that everyone is comfortable with, perhaps, on a MN Feminist section. Although that part is only a small part of a longer series of situations. There are the usual " makeup and hairdressing " scenes, but also some people with insightful thoughts on all sides.

Thirdly, the thread was started by a TS woman, and not everyone is happy with TS women using MN feminist sections. So perhaps there is an element of " lets not encourage the buggers by posting on that thread? " :-)

But all in all, I think the programme is worth a look on catchup or whatever.

I haven’t watched this yet, but I personally correct everyone who assumes I am my stepdaughter’s mum because it is disrespectful to her actual mother, who gestated her and raised her all through the baby and toddler years and still does the bulk of the parenting now, including ALL the heavy lifting parts.

I’d rather not pass judgment on individual families (even if they do put themselves on the telly) but if a dysphoric parent can no longer tolerate being called by their original parenting name, then I would hope that they seek some family therapy to either help them come to terms with it for the sake of the child, or to healthily negotiate a new term that suits all involved.

It’s not fair on the other parent, nor on the child’s perception of reality, to simply go from mummy to daddy or daddy to mummy.

A GRC enables a person to retrospectively change their own birth certificate, but it does not allow for a child’s to be changed.

The person who gave birth to the child is legally still the mother, even if later on they legally become a man.

Laws around nationality vary but in many cases, the nationality of the mother decides the nation status of the child. Children are entitled to a mother for many reasons, and gender dysphoria trumps none of them.