Girls or co-ed at secondary?

[RiverTam]

DD is year 4 so we're a while off but I'd be really interested to hear people's experiences of their DDs in either girls or mixed secondaries. At the moment we have two not-especially certain options of either a co-ed state school (new but should be very good) or a girls' private (we would have to move house to be near a girls' state school, which is annoying as it's very good but plonked somewhere I don't really want to live. The private is extremely academic so may be no good for DD anyway, but it is local).

I went to a small girls' private school from aged 7 to 17 and came out of it almost unable to speak to boys at all, which caused all sorts of problems for me for a long time - but, obviously, had had no problems with boys at school - by which I mean boys dominating classes, assumptions made by staff, harrassment great or small. None of that.

So I'm unsure what would be best for DD. Me and DH would certainly like her to go to a local school (neither of us did, and didn't have any local friends at all). I see more and more about the number of girls experienced harassment at school, and am concerned about the domination of boys in the classroom. Even smaller things like how few good female parts in plays there are bother me!

So I'm after some wise words from the women of FWR. I know that I am prone to overthinking, and am also indecisive and uncertain about my own convictions half the time!

My dd is in an all girls school. I knew quite early on that she would do better in that environment. Just a sense I had about her and the kind of person she is. I sometimes went in to help out at her primary and was always pissed off whenever I observed a PE lesson as without fail the boys dominated constantly apart from one girl who was almost an honorary boy because she was good at football so they “let” her be passed to etc.

Single sex education is probably not for every child but it was right for my child and so far I think it was the right choice.

Carowiththegoodhair. Your dd and her school sounds so similar to my dd and her school

I've been to some of the schools already and did very much like both the state and private girls' schools, and DD came with us to the girls' state and liked it. Though the HT gave an pretty unispiring speech where she barely touched on the benefits of girls' only education, which I thought a bit odd. But both mean £££££ either in terms of fees or moving costs (and she may not get into the private anyway), whereas the co-ed, whilst still a slight punt, costs nothing.

Sigh. I do think that I would prefer a girls' school, DD at the mo would like the idea of girls-only but more wants to go where her friends go, and also doesn't want to move house! I'm really not sure how much I need to take her POV into account right now.

Thanks for everyone taking the time to respond, it's all very useful and helpful!

She’ll get into the private in this economic climate, (unless it’s a GDST hot-house) trust me.

it's more than a GDST hothouse! We do have a GDST nearish us, which I also liked, but getting her there would be painful.

It's a very competitive school to get into, and I really don't know if DD is academic enough. I liked it a lot though.

I switched from a mixed to all girls school for A levels and to be honest I would never have continued on to do maths at university if I hadn't switched. My old school I was the only girl in my chemistry, physics and additional maths classes - the pressure was clearly on for girls to drop maths and sciences and do humanities and I think the boys felt as pressured as the girls to do "manly" subjects like maths as the girls to do art and music. There was also a lot of showing off in class to boys, or not wanting to speak up because your crush might not like you anymore, garbage like that that was completely pervasive. I was an early developer and felt the need to hide my breasts and figure under huge tent-like jumpers two sizes up at all times and tried to make myself blend into the background or I got comments about my chest. The girls were hideously bitchy to each other and cliquey, mostly to do with competing for attention from popular or sporty boys. It was literally like the Mean Girls film.

Starting at a girls school was like a huge weight was lifted off my shoulders that I didn't even know was there - every subject was for girls, every activity was for girls, because we were all girls. No boys to make comments, stare at me or for the girls to compete for their attention. My sons are in an all boys school now and they are doing so much drama, art, music, stuff that the boys at my old school were really discouraged from doing because "it's so gay"

Personally I hate the mentality that girls are these precious dolls that must be locked away in a glass cabinet in order to protect their innocence. Why are we insisting on segregating our daughters rather than teaching our sons (and daughters) about respect and consent? I would much prefer my daughter to learn how to navigate the coed world at school than have to learn at uni or in the workplace.

My daughter is at coed secondary, in year 8. I do worry about the sexual harassment/male domination side of things. But I worried more about how bitchy girls can be, magnified in a single sex context. Other girls are much more likely to be unpleasant about a girl's appearance or behaviour in my experience. Also I don't think single sex is good preparation for living in the real coed world. I went to coed school, had a girl join from a girls school for sixth form who went completely boy crazy as she was interacting with boys for the first time at the peak of puberty. The rest of us were much less excited about these 16 year old boys we'd known for years. So far my daughter seems to have perfectly normal platonic friendships with boys and no social issues.

Agree with @wonderstuff

Both my children go to single sex schools. DD transferred from co-ed at age 8. The change in her was dramatic; she absolutely blossomed. I don’t recognise any of the bitchiness at girls schools people are describing either from her experience or my own (I went to a single-sex secondary). From my and DD friends’ experiences, I agree that the girl-girl bullying seems to be rife in co-ed because there’s pressure to impress the boys - whether or not such behaviour actually does impress them!

I was less certain about sending DS to an all boys school - DH was at all-boys and he suffered from having no interaction with girls/women until university. However, I’m more convinced having experienced DS at an all-boys pre-prep and prep; it probably depends very much on the individual school but where DS is really does allow the boys to explore all their interests, even those that would be deemed ‘girly’ elsewhere. For example, DS is starting to learn the flute next term because that’s an instrument that excites him. There are several boys in his school that do. According to the flute teacher, there are no boys in the co-ed schools she teaches at at all that learn the flute.

I’m now a big fan of single sex education for both boys and girls - good single sec schools allow children to expand and explore traditionally feminine/masculine interests and subjects without peer pressure that they’re encroaching on the other sex’s territory.

We chose co-ed for dd which was her choice too. I went to a co-ed and did STEM A levels. Dd has autism and often finds boys less complicated than the girls.
There were many other reasons the girls' school was a bad fit for her so it was an easy decision really.

It depends on the individual school and pupil - no school will suit every child.

Absolutely.

FWIW, my DD went to a girls' GS, it suited her admirably. It was good for STEM, the most taken A levels were maths, chemistry and biology. (It was good for humanities too, of course ). She's now in her second year doing engineering at Cambridge, and as far as I can tell having no problem at all dealing with males.

I went to a convent girls' school, but also lived in a very small town so knew boys socially, and had boyfriends from about fourteen. Don't know what it would have been like to be in a larger town and not known any boys. I don't think I'd have liked being in school with boys, life without them was very calm, in retrospect.

It’s not the mentality that girls are precious dolls but I think of children as being like seedlings. Do you plant them outside in a frost straight away or keep them in a warm greenhouse until they are hardy and ready to withstand the cold winters?