Unfeminist Women

[smithsinarazz]

Just having a whinge really. I've got into the most ridiculous twitter argument with a woman who deeply objects to a campaign against domestic violence against women, on the basis that men are victims too and they matter too. I said, of course, nobody's saying men aren't important, it's just that women are more likely to get killed by their partners/ex-partners and it's reasonable to pick up on a pattern of crime, and address it. I've given her the stats. I've told her that there's nothing wrong with campaigning for men's health, it's just that this is a campaign specifically about women. All to no avail. I really should know when to walk away, but, really, it's infuriating.
It leads me to think - that, and other things - that young straight women are quite often utterly rubbish at feminism, because (and I speak for myself here) we are/ were too busy trying to ingratiate ourselves with the men.
AIBU?

Of course you’re not.

Would you try to derail a campaign for better awareness of testicular cancer by whining on about breast cancer? Of course you wouldn’t. You’d acknowledge that men and women both have various issues which are sometimes best served by different campaigns.

WHATABOUTTHEMEN is just another form of ‘women, shut up.’

Thanks Bowl. Sometimes you just need a bit of moral support. I found myself thinking "Blimey, am I completely bonkers? I mean, I do actually care about men. I'm surrounded by lovely, thoughtful men, and, not being an utter sexist, I believe they have the capacity to suffer and the requirement for support. So am i being an utter wanker by suggesting that a campaign against VAWG is ok?"

Her position is absurd. I mean the Cat's Protection League people don't get criticized for not raising money for the donkey sanctuary, do they?

Smith I empathise; it drives me mad too.

You've probably seen this blog before, but it's such a perfect example of all this Whataboutery I find it useful for perspective.

victimfocus.wordpress.com/2018/01/03/stop-asking-me-what-about-men/

In other news, Help the Aged are not being criticised for not focussing in children. ..

Yanbu

Well maybe she has a point. While fighting against DV perpetrated against women is good fight against DV in its entirety is better. It’s a bit sad that male victims of DV get ignored because they are in the minority. Maybe you should suggest she goes off and starts her own campaign?

Male victims don't get ignored.

It's somewhat simplistic to suggest that the issue of domestic violence shouldn't be broken down and focussed on in different ways.

And no, she really really doesn't have a point, as everyone else on this thread has explained, very clearly.

There is a campaign already for men. More men should fund raise and support it.
www.mensadviceline.org.uk/

I'm a cat person myself, and an active supporter of my local Women's Aid. My reasons, my choice

Thanks @LurkingWaspi. I might tell her that!
@Racecardriver - yes, I might tell her that, too! I just don't see why anyone should object to disaggregating a problem and focusing on the people who are the most vulnerable.
I know I'm preaching to the converted here, of course, but thanks.

You are welcome *Smiths"
Can't be doing with "whataboutery". The "whatabouters" are the ones who tend to do sweet f.a. except blather on.

I did a sponsored event recently at my women’s only gym for women’s aid. The shocking amount of women who asked me what was I doing for men.

I’m also working with 4 3 rd university students on an intern placement. They had a very interesting chat amongst themselves about feminism first of all having absolutely no idea what it is & secondly spouting hand maiden shite. All women BTW.

MadameBatty
You were the only one doing fundraising out of them all, I imagine?

Male victims do not get ignored. I'm the trustee of a domestic abuse charity and much of our funding is contingent on offering services to men. We do support men but although we can, we have never provided refuge for a man. That's because DV is a crime mainly committed against women.

Her argument is utter nonsense but I doubt she'll ever understand. If indeed it is a she you are actually arguing with.

Blimey O'Reilly, @MadamBatty, we're just too nice to stick up for ourselves, aren't we?
Yeah, whataboutery irritates the tits off me. The other context in which I get it is where I'm pontificating about road accident reduction and how cyclists and pedestrians are disproportionately vulnerable, and people say "Ah, but i saw someone on a bike behaving like a twat the other day" as if that meant kids getting run over doesn't matter.

Yep it passed me right off. I looked them in the eye & said I’m doing this for women’s aid as what Clarinsgirl said. I’d support you if you want to do something for a men’s refuge.

Wtf are women supposed to simper, bow down & always put men first. To the detriment of women. These all senior professional women.

@Clarinsgirl - Really? That's bonkers. (Just one point, actually - on the relative frequency of male-on-female and female-on-male violence. Someone argued that men are almost as likely to experience DV in all its forms - not, presumably, murder, where you can't deny it's always the men what dunnit. What IS the prevalence of female-on-male DV? I've heard of women being controlling, emotionally abusive, etc etc etc - but surely female violence against men is rare?)

Smiths

The Mankind Charity (www.mankind.org.uk/about-us/about-us/) has various stats here www.mankind.org.uk/statistics/

From "35 key facts" (www.mankind.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/35-Key-Facts-Male-Victims-March-2018-1.pdf):
For every three victims of domestic abuse, two
will be female, one will be male. One in four women and one in six to seven men
suffer from domestic abuse in their lifetime.)

In 16/17, 13 men died at the hands of their partner or ex-partner compared to
82 women

Slightly different but I once got into an argument with a man who had written a blog post called '6 myths about feminism' he actually tried to argue that DV is worse for men. It didn't matter how many facts were presented to him he was adamant he was right.
These people walk among us which worries me.

Ffs. Do black people fundraising for charities which specifically support black people get asked 'what are you doing for white people?' by other black people?

I wish women would get over this idea that our role in life is to serve men. If we don't believe we deserve to be treated as equal human beings how the fuck are we ever going to persuade them?

The figures for female-on-male DV are complicated by the fact that abusive males quite commonly make counter-accusations against their abused partners. Also many male victims are victimised by male rather than by female partners.

Here is Karen Ingala Smith discussing the differential in violence between male and female reports:

kareningalasmith.com/2013/04/29/this-thing-about-male-victims/

TallulahWaitingInTheRain

Thank you for that link.

Recently, I had a look at the findings and tables of the British Crime Survey on domestic violence, in the context of the Government's Violence against Women and Girls Strategy. (Home Office website)

The question was (and I'm paraphrasing): 'have you been affected by domestic violence/abuse at any stage in your life?"

The tables shows that a significant number of men have been 'affected'. We can assume that a proportion of those men had witnessed male violence towards a female relative, as children.

This is an important point for campaigners to understand when they at look at the tables and statistics and ask 'what about men victims?' They can't assume that all of those men are being beaten up by women.

What the figures tell me is that it is essential to tackle male violence on women if we are to help male and female children who have witnessed, survived but been affected by the violence.

That's why the priority has to be women and children domestic violence services, in my view.