Good Morning Britain - Stephanie Davies-Arai and Munroe Bergdorf

[OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon]

I've only seen clips on twitter but it appears that GMB were discussing the rise of children who identify as trans

twitter.com/GMB/status/1067325915338813440

And apparently 'inclusive' definitions are a thing to be embraced. If you ask Munroe to pick up a lemon from the supermarket to put in your gin, you might well get a cauliflower, or a banana, on the basis that they're all under the 'fresh produce' umbrella.

Some trans activists argue that GNC isn't trans, particularly when dealing with the issue of desisters/detransitioners. They were never trans, you see. Just GNC. It's one of the most blatant 'no true Scotsman' arguments I've ever seen.

The Gilligan article about the Brighton sclool said teachers, social workers etc are afraid to speak out. I wonder what can be done to help these people do their jobs properly?

If teachers and social workers are too afraid to speak out about safeguarding they need to find other jobs, and make room for others that can do the job.

That's not what would happen. They would be replaced by those who can't see the problem, or agree with the direction of 'progress'.

Oooof it's nice to see someone talking over Bergdorf like Bergdorf talks over other people.

That Twitter feed is greatly encouraging too.

I wonder if Bergdorf ever deleted that tweet where they encouraged a young person to contact them for advice. I think that very unwise. Did anyone see that too?

Looks like India and Bergdorf ain't chums

The twitter threads about this are massive - with the gender critical view coming across almost consistently.
Now Piers Morgan needs to get some of the politicians in the studio to explain why they keep funding these groups promoting this rubbish and telling schools to use them.

It's good to see sprout and mimmymummy howling into the twitter void in that thread. They don't agree with you, you swivel eyed loons. Get over it.

Watching on catch up. Piers is really on a roll with this. He's a dick but I love that he actually questions the TRAs. Munroe peaks a million more viewers. Why should feminism include men? ARGH

At the end did you hear Piers ask Munroe "are you female?"

Stephanie didn't need to speak, Munroe unknowingly said it all and has peak transed thousands.

Please watch the re-run at 8.03 to 8.05m. The debate continues between Piers and Susanna. I'm pleased to see that Susanna was actually being sarcastic about changing the word woman and does not support this (though Piers said earlier susanna agreed with Munroe)

Piers: By being so inclusive, they actually want to exclude the majority, which to me, is not being inclusive.
It's catering and pandering to a small minority. Also Andy Barton here who's from. Essex Tweeted me: 'He worked as a disability sector for 20 yers as a physical therapist. A firm believer that he finds all faux outrage and virtue signalling amusing. Anyway he's tweeted me to say 'My 12 yr old daughter just hit the nail on the head. 'At school it's not cool if you're normal' her words exactly.'

When did that happen? When did it happen that you could not be cool by just being normal? By not having yourself attached to a fad like gender fluidity, which I think it is. It's just a fad 76 kids in one school and now identifying as gender fluid. It's just ridiculous. And now we're all just supposed to accept this as the new norm. I don't think it is, sorry.

Susanna: We definitely discussed this on the programme

P: More than any other show

S: More than any other show

P: I like Munroe but she always gets personal and she always says you're the one being aggressive. There is no more aggressive lobby group out there than Munroe and the transgender groups

S: (casts a look if doubt) I don't know, I don't think Munroe was being aggressive...

P: she's always very aggressive

S: I think she's wrong when she says you're on your own with your views about this, cos there are, as you've seen lots of responses

P: It's also lazy and trite to say it's bigotry. It's not bigotry - I'm not bigoted against anybody. I just think that when 76 kids at one school suddenly decide they're gender fluid, it's ridiculous. And I also think that when top universities in this country have student unions banning the word woman

S: Yeh but the weird thing is (closes eyes and does small pinching/quotation gestures with her hands) all they're doing is taking out the 'a' and putting an 'x' in. Doesn't make any sense Because when you speak the word it's still 'woman'

P: So why change it?

S: I'm a feminist and even I don't think that's reasonable.

P: Thank you Susanna, we've reached a point of agreement.'

S:

It also is on YouTube for anyone who can't be bothered faffing with catch-up

I've had my first ever deletion on this thread. I made the same point as lilySalvatore above, entirely without thinking - I certainly wasn't being deliberately unkind. I guess the misgendering mod must have been circling.

Bergdorf strikes me as an excellent illustration of the futility of educating a person to a level beyond their natural intelligence.

Lots and lots of big words but none deployed at a relevant moment, nor employed in a meaningful manner.

Betty, I liked ot when MB threw in the word 'intersectionality' at Piers and he made a point of saying something like 'you can throw in all these long words, but the fact is 76 kids in one school...'

Bullshit baffles brains is a tactic that's wearing thin.

Why is it so acceptable for men to talk over womxn (sorry couldn't resist). Piers might be right in what hes saying but he comes across as a complete bully and that will make people support MB.

Having watched, that was a demonstration of male entitlement in pure form.

4 participants, the majority of airtime dominated by two of them.

I thought SAD held her ground and commitment to the subject matter admirably in the circumstances.

What's worrying too is that Schools Week promotes Stonewall yet slams TransgenderTrend. It's influential as my son's HT used it in defence of Stonewall.

Schools Week's own Alix Robertson attended this conference:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3398737-We-re-Still-Here-Conference-8th-September-A-report-from-the-inside

Urgh! Both Morgan and Bergdorf where practically unwatchable. Unlike Davis-Arai who had cogent, salient points they were both just ranting and point scouring. It was almost like watching two pompous men argue.

Luggsays Not almost like - that is exactly what it was! Stephanie DA was outstanding, especially in those ‘debating’ conditions.

Yeah, I'm not sure this did a huge amount for the GC side really. Stephanie was good when she got to speak but Piers was so obnoxious. And came across to an outside observer as far more obnoxious than MB, if I am perfectly honest. MB was really only visibly 'jolted' when Stephanie pointed out that she herself would be gender nonconforming and so what did it mean?

We really do need to get this across to the public properly because it's pretty core - the whole of current trans ideology is a problem because the ideas and meanings of gender (and gender nonconformity) it espouses are a nonsense. What is being talked about in the media re: what it means to be a woman or what it means to be trans is mostly dealing in fallacies. What people are being told about what GC women actually think and believe are fabrications. It's infuriating.

The Womans Hour segments recently are doing a much better job of this - and Kathleen Stock in particular is great at being clear - but the rest of the media - and any 'debate' - seems to me to just be playing on the surface and confusing people with terminology.