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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Debbie Hatton in The Spectator: The rush to diagnose trans children serves no-one

12 replies

TimeLady · 23/11/2018 11:53

blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/11/the-rush-to-diagnose-trans-children-serves-no-one/

OP posts:
TimeLady · 23/11/2018 11:55

Are social media influencers telling the truth about what it’s like to grow up transgender? Indeed many self-appointed experts who transitioned in mid-life – often after fathering their own children – have no idea what it would have been like to transition as youngsters. And how do they know their followers are not just going through a phase – or perhaps struggling with their sexuality or something deeper – like Stella herself experienced thirty years ago?

OP posts:
teawamutu · 23/11/2018 12:02

Does anyone have a share token?

Popchyk · 23/11/2018 12:03

This was referenced on the Stella O'Malley thread, but I think it fits better here. Don't want to derail that thread, which is very interesting.

Spiked Online

There is no such thing as a ‘trans kid’

It’s time for honesty: the transgender ideology is seriously hurting young people

Article by Brendan O'Neill who has covered the transgender issue in a number of articles.

Twitter comments are in agreement.

twitter.com/spikedonline/status/1065575803558273024

Suenahmi · 23/11/2018 12:04

Sensible quite if the day for me
"Instead we should abolish the restrictions which make children in Stella’s position feel lost and isolated, and let boys and girls express themselves freely regardless of sex."

TransposersArePosers · 23/11/2018 12:27

I really like this statement from Debbie in the article

I have no idea what it feels like to be a woman, any more than I know what it feels like to be a man – all I know is how it feels to be me

R0wantrees · 23/11/2018 12:38

Debbie Hayton and her family featured in the Channel 4 documentary by Stella O'Malley.

current thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3430608-Stella-OMalley-Trans-Kids-Its-Time-To-Talk

scepticalwoman · 23/11/2018 16:03

Both Debbie's article and Brendan O'Neill's are really important. And O'Neill's calling it out for what it is - child abuse. Failing to protect children in a myriad of ways and allowing unsuitable adults access to young people in schools and online to peddle an ideology that children are unable to conceptualise and to give informed consent to.

And the government stands back and does nothing (bar throwing hundreds of thousands of £££ at trans groups).

JackyHolyoake · 23/11/2018 19:42

Ask yourself these questions:

Why is it only males who 'transition' in middle age, many [if not most of whom are married and are fathers to children]?

How come women / mothers never 'transition' in middle age?

Does this mean that "gender dysphoria" is exclusive to males?

Or does it mean that "gender dysphoria" doesn't really exist but is something conjured by males to try to disguise autogynephilia?

DebbieInBirmingham · 23/11/2018 21:25

Hi Jacky. The restrictions and expectations placed on males and females are not the same. The occurrence of transsexualism is therefore not the same either. In midlife it is almost entirely one-way traffic.

That's one reason why I'm so concerned about the anomalous flow in the other direction by adolescents. These issues need to be opened up. I hoped to encourage that by publishing that piece.

Those aren't new ideas for me (I suspect I've discussed them privately with you in the past) but it's the first time I spoken publicly about them.

R0wantrees · 23/11/2018 22:30

The restrictions and expectations placed on males and females are not the same. The occurrence of transsexualism is therefore not the same either. In midlife it is almost entirely one-way traffic.

Recent BMJ letter by medical clinicians:

Published 29 October 2018
'Redesigning gender identity services: an opportunity to generate evidence'
authors: Richard Byng, general practitioner and professor in primary care research, Susan Bewley, emeritus professor of obstetrics and women’s health, Damian Clifford, consultant liaison psychiatrist, Margaret McCartney, general practitioner and freelance writer
(extracts)
"A recent feature in The BMJ implied that new services are all that’s needed to improve transgender healthcare. Providing timely, sensitive services for all, including those who decide to not pursue treatment or detransition, is important. But the article did not question the steep rise in referrals of mainly young women or the potential harms of medical overdiagnosis and overtreatment" (continues)

"Regulated medical practitioners should follow a framework of evidence, not simply respond to client expectations. Creating that evidence to inform quality standards is an ethical imperative. We need research to explore the interplays between gender identity, mental health and neurodevelopmental problems, sexual orientation, autogynephilia, and unpalatable gender roles" (continues)

open access link here:
www.bmj.com/content/363/bmj.k4490.full?ijkey=6lX93kQA0lz5YoB&keytype=ref

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3410257-BMJ-article-We-need-research-to-explore-the-interplays-between-gender-identity-mental-health-and-neurodevelopmental-problems-sexual-orientation-autogynephilia-and-unpalatable-gender-roles

DebbieInBirmingham · 23/11/2018 22:50

I was fortunate to have a couple of minutes with Richard Byng (an author of that letter) at the LAWS meeting in Plymouth. He had a huge impact on me; he is an important voice.

FWRLurker · 24/11/2018 00:53

I have heard of many college age or slightly older women who previously IDd as lesbians then IDing as transmen. Can’t say I’ve heard of strictly middle age to be fair.

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