Sexist things DH said.

[Florries]

We have a baby and DH is overall a lovely man but occasionally let's things I find offensive slip. I let it go in the past and laughed it off because, hey, I'm a woman and that's what we are trained to do, right?

It was things like saying to baby DS don't be such a girl etc. I called him up on it and explained how it was wrong and offensive. Like he's teaching DS it's wrong to be a girl. DH was genuinely shocked and said he never realised but when I explained it he wouldn't make comments like that and understood it was sexist.

And he hasn't.

Until tonight, a particular challenging nappy change that DH was doing and he said oh DS, stop crying. Youre such a girl. in a soft, playful way

Im really pissed off. I do get it, he slipped up but I'm just so annoyed. I think I'm more annoyed because I'm so inarticulate and am one of those people that freeze in confrontation but 2 seconds later know exactly what to say.

He came down and said 'have you got the hump' I just said yes.

All in my head before he came down I was thinking exactly what I wanted to say. It all went. I just can't retain anything.

It doesn't help that earlier when he was about to change DS's nappy and I was going to get the dinner on, he said what could he swap in exchange I'd do the nappy. I said he does tonight's night shift (we take turns) he said no to that. So I laughed but walked past him and he said get back in that kitchen (jokingly) which I rolled my eyes at in a joking manner but now looking back it's like - well that's twice tonight then.

Any advice on how I can approach this tonight when the baby is asleep? I'd like to have some good points ready for when I inevitably go blank.

Or am I being completely unreasonable and getting offended at nothing.

This is a tricky one. I don't think he's being deliberately sexist - just repeating the things his parents said to him, his teachers said to him and basically what everyone would have said the whole time he grew up.
But that doesn't mean you can't pull him up on it - every time.

Some good points to raise are that stereotyping goes both ways. Would he be OK with his son being belittled because he showed emotion or being told not to cry? To be a "strong boy" or to "man up". What if you have a girl next time - will he stop saying it then?

Tell him it's a serious point that he may not see as being much more than a joke - but that babies soak up what we say to them and that he needs to set a better example.

That includes being respectful to you - even if he thinks it's a joke. A child won't know he's joking. It is abusive to a child to abuse the mother.

if he's into football he might want to read this

www.theguardian.com/football/2013/jul/30/liverpool-unacceptable-words-discrimination

it points out that using terms such as "throwing like a girl" have been banned by some football clubs because it is offensive. And it is seen in the same light as racist terms

Next time he’s complaining or trying to get out of doing something, just call him a big girl's blouse/cissy or such like and watch his reaction.

That's absolutely brilliant remember thank you.

It doesn't help that earlier when he was about to change DS's nappy and I was going to get the dinner on, he said what could he swap in exchange I'd do the nappy.

I also think it’s interesting he felt he should swop something so as not to do the nappy (when you were engaged on another task). Does this work both ways?

I sometimes say things which are my from my upbringing and definitely require conscious monitoring and I’d cut him and you a bit of slack with a baby but I think you are right to call him out on it (politely - I agree that he should address you respectfully, especially because you are a woman and therefore in a less powerful position in society) because he may not be self-correcting his phrasing yet if it’s really ingrained.

I would approach him more diplomatically that you may feel like being. Saying, it really hurts me to hear you refer negatively to being a girl, and what message will that send our child? Rather than a hard core rant about entitlement which I might feel like but would probably be less effective!

Next time he’s complaining or trying to get out of doing something, just call him a big girl's blouse/cissy or such like and watch his reaction.

No - that would be totally missing the point. Those lazy stereotypes work on the assumption that women, and feminine things are automatically weak and inferior.

Sorry I should have labelled my post lighthearted.

Also (a bit randomly) you might be able to find a family word to refer to your baby’s behaviour which is ‘gender neutral’. I know when my son was/is tricky we have a few made up word or expressions so my husband and I can express our exasperation to each other but not in a universally negative way (and not really ‘gendered’). You may not need this but I definitely needed a way to vent a bit now and then and it is a weird way of making them a sort of fond criticism which cuts the sting out and might help with giving your DH alternative phrases to use.

I'd call him out on it Every. Single.Time by saying do you think being a girl is a bad thing?

It is deeply offensive to use the term girl as an insult. DEEPLY.

And walk past him and jokingly say "get out there and earn more money". Just as offensive...

Everyday sexism facilitates the very worst against women.

I had this, it was unconscious programming from being one of 3 boys to very religious parents (ergo not really into questioning the status quo or politics.)

I had to learn first myself why it pissed me off so much.I learnt that here and from some other sources, eg Steve Biddulph on fb. In Australia there's a big men's mental health campaign tackling the whole stigma around men's feelings called Man Up - preventing suicide. It tracks a culture of that sort if langurs being responsible for Australias high rate of suicide among men.

The bbc documentary "no more boys abs girls" is extremely good at laying it out as to why this language is shit.

At the end of the day it's plain sexist. It's saying that girls are weak and underdogs and as a boy he's not to be like that. Dh was always supposedly half joking but I could'nt let ds think it was ok.

I do think dh struggled a bit with the whole baby thing. The crying and neediness. He's really loving the age 5-6 stage. Second time round he's definitely much better though.

A hint of being told he was being sexist was enough to shut dh up. Call him out every single time. And tell him a story of how some kids you know repeated all these things in the school yard, very loudly, in front of parents and teachers; they all knew who had said it to them. (Cos that happens!)

manup.org.au/

Ask him to get back in the garden and mow the lawn/take out the rubbish, and while he's there, fix your damn car!

Also tell him to man up whenever he gets upset.

I think you've handled it well, and it sounds like he has taken it on board. He slipped up and he'll stop now. If it happens again, just point out that he wouldn't like to hear you slating men in the same way.

So I laughed but walked past him and he said get back in that kitchen (jokingly) which I rolled my eyes at in a joking manner but now looking back it's like - well that's twice tonight then.

I think you need to just say you'd prefer he not say that sort of thing now you've got a child as it's hard for them to understand the context. He obviously didn't really mean it and he obviously knew you had no intention of listening to him. It's the sort of thing DH and I would joke about but then he would never say "don't cry like a girl" or anything like that. The kitchen comment would be said ironically, in jest, and crucially, not in front of kids. I do the same to him about "The English" "All Men".

Yeap, he doesn't sound like a bad 'un, just needs a bit of re-education.

Buy him this book for Christmas if he liked Peep Show:

www.amazon.co.uk/dp/1786890119/ref=asc_df_178689011957037970/?hvlocphy=9045464&linkCode=df0&hvptwo&psc=1&hvnetw=g&hvadid=311043828655&creative=22110&hvpone&hvlocint&creativeASIN=1786890119&th=1&hvpos=1o1&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl&hvqmt&tag=mumsnetforum-21&hvtargid=pla-488689893734&hvrand=16558244441612744125

It's like getting Robert Webb to educate your DH for you! A review:

"Wow, I feel like buying a copy of this for everyone I know! Robert's story of his childhood, adolescence and twenties makes interesting, funny and poignant reading at times. But rather than become the typical product of his often difficult upbringing, he has done a lot of thinking and reflecting, and has managed to see gender sterotyping for what it really is - destructive for men and destructive for women. He is now endeavouring to bring up his children in a way that will destroy these stereotypes. Good for him - this is a powerful book and I highly recommend it."

Oh yes, the RW book is excellent!

It's so prevalent, it's hardly surprising. I used to sit at toddler groups and hear other mums telling their DS to stop crying like a girl and man up, and the like. I cringed and bit my tongue.
I would remind him every time he said it though, and try not to seethe too much.