Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Australian Mumsnetters (Tas)

50 replies

CamillasTampon · 22/11/2018 05:58

Coming out of lurkdom to discuss some legislative amendments happening in Tasmania currently.

The leader of our Greens party has launched a personal crusade to get our very own version of Self-ID through the State Parliament. As per usual for this lot, the amendments were cobbled together at the last minute and handed to members with very little discussion in the press.

The reforms will be read in the Upper house on Tuesday. I urge anyone who is willing, to send emails and make noise to the members of the Legislative Council, who are mostly Independents and whose contact details are publically available at the Parliament Tasmania website.

I wrote a submission this morning and sent it to all 22 members. I also included as an attachment Datun's wonderful post on the Peak Trans analogy of walking up a hill, which seems to be key to getting people to put this in context. Anyway, here it is in full:

'I am writing to you with concern at the proposed gender recognition reforms passed by the Lower House on Tuesday evening.

As a mental health Social Worker working in acute care with a vulnerable population group, it is my opinion that these reforms will effectively dismantle all of the safeguarding measures we have in place in regards to women and children.

I emphatically deny that this is a matter of LGB concern. In fact, there remains an increasingly bitter divide within the community, with those who understand that Transgender political aims are an entirely different beast to those of the Gay and Lesbian community, and in fact the two communities have opposing interests on many issues.

When you vote on these reforms, please do not make the grave mistake of conflating gender identity with sexuality because the two are not the same, and any short-term feeling of having done a good deed - ‘been on the right side of history’ etc will dissipate very quickly in the polls and on the ground when your constituents realise that previously protected spaces are now opened up to all and sundry; with the only barrier to violations of privacy and dignity being a signed statutory declaration.

That there is no alternative view being presented in the public press should be a warning sign on the limitations and chilling effect that this issue has on free speech. If there is no balance in reporting I would argue that true public consultation is not possible.

There is nothing wrong with being transgender and that is not my issue here. However, biological fact is immutable and to say otherwise is dishonest. What is really being asked here is that less that one percent of the population are given legal precedence over more than fifty percent of the population – those who fought for their rights over generations and are now threatened with seeing them dismantled in the blink of an eye. Inclusion should not come at the expense of cohesion, and the right to sex-specific spaces and services exists for very good reason.

Proposals for similar legislation have recently caused significant backlash in the UK. I include as an attachment one of my favourite explanations of how far-reaching this legislation will be, and how one may react when seeing the ramifications within a broader context. I hope you will take the time to read it because it remains one of the most viewed posts on one of the most trafficked websites in the UK.

I thank you for your time and hope you will take this on board when coming to a decision.

Regards'

I will keep you all posted on any interesting replies.

Anyway, cheers and thankyou to everyone who participates here for facilitating my ongoing education on this issue Flowers

OP posts:
thewitchofwentworth · 23/11/2018 13:37

Roz Ward is political poison, no one from the major parties will work with her now after she called the Australian flag racist and said she wanted to replace it with a red (communist) one. She's currently campaigning for a socialist candidate Stephen Jolly in tomorrow's election.

SeaWitchly · 23/11/2018 19:56

I am in Brisbane and was also aghast by this.
I have actually been online to see if I could find an Aus equivalent to Woman's Place UK... and couldn't. Perhaps we could set up something similar [if it's not already in existence?].
Otherwise perhaps a petition would help?

Danaquestionseverything · 23/11/2018 20:22

Thanks for the info gingerpusscat. Sydney here and boys at high school (well DS1 just finished). It really was promoted as a generic anti bullying program. I'd heard about the website linking to porn, which really wasn't surprising, any attempts by government departments to create online services end in debacle. Online Census anyone?

The info on Dowsett is frightening, especially when viewed in combination with recent attempts to promote maps as a valid lifestyle/sexual orientation. No decent adults will stand for it, once word gets out the backlash will be huge. Problem is getting the information out there when majority of media turn a blind eye. We need to be patient and persistent like our UK sisters. Our problem appears to be we have no high profile feminists calling it out.

SeaWitchly · 23/11/2018 20:34

Yes ginger, we need someone to rally behind and in whom the media would be interested...

SeaWitchly · 23/11/2018 21:02

How about Professor Bronwyn Winter at the University of Sydney along with Germaine Greer?
What a formidable double act that would be.

GlorianaCervixia · 23/11/2018 21:06

I’m in Sydney. I knew about the criticism of Safe Schools but those quotes from Dowsett on paedophilia have stunned me.

There aren’t many high-profile Australian feminists to begin with and most of them aren’t gender critical. Clementine Ford is right on board the TWAW train.

Agree we need to model ourselves on the UK mumsnetters and campaigners. I notice on Essential Baby, the Aus Mumsnet equivalent, there have been a few gender critical discussions popping up, although they are attacked as bigots by some posters.

Hannah Mouncey has been great for peak transing people. There’s also Eve Amati who attacked strangers with an axe abecause they felt “judged for being trans” on tinder. Currently on trial for attempted murder.

mobile.abc.net.au/news/2018-07-19/evie-amati-axe-attack-accused-wished-blows-inflicted-on-herself/10012660?pfmredir=sm

gingerpusscat · 23/11/2018 21:17

The website linked to a site which sold binders, and the outcry was such they had to remove it. And the sex toy links also had to be removed.

Most states no longer run the official program. Many parents appear to loathe it. Victoria still runs Safe Schools, and its continued funding is a current election issue. Labor has promised to retain it, our conservative opposition has said they will replace it with a generic anti-bullying program. I have not voted Labor in this election over this issue.

The Gender Fairy horrified me. I have a 4 year old son who is pretty out there in all respects. I know that the book's content - that babies are arbitrarily assigned pink and blue bassinets, which might not match how they 'feel inside', and that being a boy or girl manifests only in a child's preferred toys and games, and has nothing to do with their sexed body - would be very confusing and damaging to him. It's completely reactionary bollocks. There is a definite creep downwards in the age of those being exposed to gender essentialist ideas as part of preschool and primary programs.

SeaWitchly · 23/11/2018 21:20
gingerpusscat · 23/11/2018 21:23

Yes, Gloriana, the Dowsett quotes are horrific. It seems that only Christian bloggers and Andrew Bolt (!!) have reported on this with any integrity.

ALittleBitofVitriol · 23/11/2018 21:39

A lot of the safe schools links were changed after this article (and the author doing some media interviews)
www.spectator.com.au/2017/04/sexualising-school-kids/

ALittleBitofVitriol · 23/11/2018 21:44

Sorry, just to warn, there is a right wing slant in that article/spectator

NotMeOhNo · 23/11/2018 21:49

I was told recently that most Victorian gender nonsense has been pushed by an individual close to Premier Andrews. Apparently they (yes indeed they is a they) have been able to singlehandedly push a lot of shit, like birth certificates. Called Roe or something.

Again, that quiet behind the scenes approach.

gingerpusscat · 23/11/2018 21:58

That article! The Dowsett 'manifesto' material is completely relevant to this 'curriculum'. What the hell are Labor playing at?

thewitchofwentworth · 23/11/2018 22:31

NotMeOhNo,

You are probably thinking of the gender and sexuality commissioner, Rowena Allen who is sometimes referred to as Ro.

The government departments are full of young women and trans people though, it's the only job they can get with their gender studies degree.

Take the 'They Day' campaign for example,

NotYourCisterinAus · 23/11/2018 22:56

The problem is that this is being framed in the media as progressives vs the Christian right - when it is reported at all. It was telling that when the Tas legislation was reported on the news last week, only the Australian Christian Lobby was on hand to point out the dangers. (And I can tell you, it felt really weird agreeing with the Australian Christian Lobby!) Fairfax cheers this on, and while I've seen opposition in The Australian it's once again from a right wing perspective.

Personally I can see nothing progressive about shoving everyone into pink or blue boxes, and medicalising anyone who doesn't fit. I'm feeling politically homeless atbthe moment, stuck between the "Coal Good, Poor People Bad" Liberals, and the "Away With the Gender Fairies" Labor and Greens.

On a more practical note, perhaps stickerwoman should get to work in Australia?

Koalablue · 24/11/2018 00:25

Sticker woman has visited Tasmania recently.
I wouldnt do anything through EB Gloriana, its owned by fairfax. Every opinion, ticker or photo you use, they own.
I was part of EB before it got sold and it was just like mumsnet. Overnight it went from lively to dead and the truely intelligent debates ceased.

NotMeOhNo · 24/11/2018 00:53

I never bothered with EB. It was usually pretty sparse on good topics. Once I found Mumsnet that was it: higher UK population means greater number of interesting conversations.

gingerpusscat · 24/11/2018 01:55

Disregarding the fact that I have no idea how the concept of 'pink brain/ blue brain' has come to be awarded progressive status, it's clear that the media are framing this solely in 'binary' terms - 'progressive' VS 'Right-Wing Christian'

Journalists seem ignorant of a gender critical viewpoint that isn't allied to religious conservatism. It's bizarre. And astonishingly lazy - 'globalism' seems to be more about the exploitation of labour than any awareness of fierce social debates raging in other jurisdictions.

I've noticed the creeping conflation of 'trans' and 'intersex' in the Fairfax press. Unforgivable that Fairfax journos are apparently unaware of Melbourne University's Professor Sheila Jeffreys.

CamillasTampon · 24/11/2018 07:01

Gloriana Yes, I agree that Mouncey did some wonderful work transing the country. I almost wish he stuck around longer because the sporting world is going to one of the best places to win this for us. I have spoken to some girls who play regional football and they tell me that some players just won't turn up on the days they are scheduled to play with Mouncey on the field. He has broken women's bones. In the same breath they will tell me that it's a no-go subject and everyone is too scared to bring it up as being an issue. A couple have even thanked me for asking them their opinion at all.

Now the 7/11 axe psycho is a strange case to look at. Originally the media were warned by his legal team that unless they referred to him as a woman they would be sued. So they reported it as a woman's crime for ages, until one (conservative) regional news reporter wrote a story calling them out for it. Then the dialogue changed and he was referred to as trans from there on out.

Anybody looking critically at that story would have been able to pick it. This is a dude who trawled Tinder for lesbians and got threatening and violent when they wouldn't sleep with him. He sent all kinds of threats to these women on the night of the crime - telling them that it was there fault people got hurt, etc.

Yet people will advocate for this heterosexual creep with a violent sense of entitlement to be housed in a women's prison. It's insanity.

OP posts:
CamillasTampon · 24/11/2018 07:11

^ I also think it says a lot when somebody uses his hormones going haywire as a legal defense for swinging an axe around in a corner shop while some poor bastards are just trying to buy a late night pie. Even in a country that does have a level of medical gatekeeping we still have nutters like this transitioning. Where is the due diligence, and will we see more of this incel shit coming through if there are no checks and balances on treatment?

OP posts:
Pulltheotheroneitsgotbellson · 25/11/2018 04:47

I'm livid: this has just been posted by Newcastle Women's Alliance (NSW)- since when has the this included transphobia and gender-based violence as opposed to sex based? I see gender-based originates with the UN...

Sunday 25 November is the International Day for the Elimination of Violence Against Women and the start of the 16 Days of Activism Against Gender Based Violence.

The 16 Days of Activism is about all forms of Gender based violence:
- Murder
- Torture
- Sexual assault 
- Sexual harassment
- Verbal abuse
- Physical abuse
- Racism
- Forced child marriages
- Workplace discrimination
- Clitoral mutilation
- Femicide
- Preventing girls access to education 
- Criminalisation of abortion
- Preventing access to sexual and reproductive healthcare and education
- Domestic and family violence
- Transphobia
- Forced abortion 
- Street based sexual harassment 
- Forced sterilisation
- Homophobia 
- Criminalisation of sex work
- Preventing access to HIV treatment and PrEP (HIV prevention)
- Sex trafficking 
- Forced virginity examinations
- Inaction on Climate Change
- Rape as a war weapon
- Cyber harassment, threats, intimidation
- Sexualisation of girls
- Stalking 
- Forced labor 
and more...

CamillasTampon · 25/11/2018 10:00

The Hobart Reclaim the Night event has a facebook page showing only the transgender symbol and calling for trans women to lead the march/be guest speakers.

OP posts:
CamillasTampon · 29/11/2018 22:13

An update: The State Government delayed the debate on this until next March. There is rumor that we may have another Federal election announced around this time. Given that similar legislation is becoming so politically toxic in NZ, with any luck it might be dead in the water by then.

www.abc.net.au/news/2018-11-30/tasmania-to-be-late-on-transgender-divorce-law/10569682?WT.ac=statenews_tas

OP posts:
HestiaParthenos · 29/11/2018 22:50

It makes me so sad to see the Green Party leave its roots and meddle with things they know nothing about.

They should have stuck to environmentalism. They really should have.

NotYourCisterinAus · 29/11/2018 23:18

Well, that's good. With three months' breathing space, Tasmanian feminists might have time to raise public awareness of the issues and start a letter writing campaign to their MPs. I suspect the people pushing this would much rather it went through without too much discussion!

As for the Greens - yes, I much preferred it when they were an environmentalist party to now when they've become a generally Woke party!

New posts on this thread. Refresh page
Swipe left for the next trending thread