Got a reply from CEO - Not sure if this is a win

[GenderIsAPrison]

So I wrote to the professional institute*. This is the reply:

^Dear GisP,

Thank you for your message and for sharing your concerns. I have now had the chance to consult with our D&I team and committee regarding your message. The Academy takes seriously all concerns raised about any aspect of its work. The issues raised are complex and I hope the points below help clarify our position on all issues raised.

1. The Academy is not a member of Stonewall and has not worked directly with it to date. Any interaction with Stonewall has been through partners who have relationships with them. We have not sought their advice in putting together any of our policies, projects, toolkits or programmes.
2. We absolutely understand the difference between sex (biological) and gender (social construct) and strive to avoid conflating the two. When mentioning the Equality Act 2010, we use ‘sex’ (not ‘gender’) as can be seen in our Equality, Diversity and Inclusion Policy available on our D&I Programme homepage
3. We cannot replace all references to gender on our webpages with sex as we need to ensure we reflect legal reference. For instance, we will continue to reference the Gender Pay Gap Regulations as this how they are referenced by government and will continue to reference ‘Transgender’ people as this is the way the group is referenced in the Equality Act 2010.
4. When it comes to referencing either ‘sex’ or ‘gender’ in aspects of our programme, where we have discretion to use the language we choose, we are mindful of the need to be in step with language used by stakeholders of our programme and wider society. This leads us to believe that the term ‘gender’ works better in some instances. For instance, in society and the workplace, ‘sex’ plays out through social stereotypes of gender and it is these stereotypes we are attempting to address through our focus on developing more inclusive cultures.
5. We will take absolute care in future when referencing our work on women/females to ensure we use the best terminology – whether that be ‘sex’ or ‘gender’.
6. We use the term inclusion to direct attention to the work that needs to be done to encourage cultures where equality and diversity thrive. We define inclusion as ‘The extent to which you feel valued for who you are (your personal and professional background, experience and skills) and the extent to which you feel you belong/‘fit’ in the engineering profession and your organisation’.
7. We do not use the term ‘equality’ across all our work but it is explicit within our policy and the Equality Act 2010 requires all employers protect their employees from discrimination and promote equality of opportunity. The need to pay attention to equality underpins our work to increase diversity and inclusion.
8. We appreciate some organisations use the term ‘sex’ in their diversity monitoring and some use ‘gender’/’gender identity’ – or a combination. • Acas diversity monitoring www.acas.org.uk/media/pdf/t/l/Delivering-equality-and-diversity-advisory-booklet.pdf • Equally professional diversity monitoring www.equalityhumanrights.com/en/publication-download/equally-professional-diversity-monitoring-professional-bodies
9. In the light of ongoing debate on terminology in relation to sex and gender, we will review the categories we use and consider how best to represent and encourage declaration of both through our diversity monitoring activities. I trust that this information will be of some help. Thank you again for your interest in the work of the Academy.

Best wishes,

CEO^

I'm not sure this is a win or not.
At least they are now aware of the issue and are reflecting more on how the terminologies are used. Hopefully the editing will come.
I feel a slight relief that the letter was not ignored and was actually taken into consideration. I think it helps my mental health to actually do something rather than despairing at what's happening.

• [Post edited at OP's request]

Am I thick, or is this difficult to understand? For instance, in society and the workplace, ‘sex’ plays out through social stereotypes of gender and it is these stereotypes we are attempting to address through our focus on developing more inclusive cultures.

I think it means they are trying to be more inclusive by breaking down sexist stereotypes.

That's a good thing.

That's the thing with trying to talk the gender ideology, it's difficult to make sense and not talk in word salads.

That was the bit that I was unsure about because a lot of the discrimination is sex based, and it's not a gender stereotype that women have babies and different work patterns and needs as a result.

I actually think its very good. They have tried very very hard to apply critical thought and come out with a well thought through and reasoned position. But of course they can't. Because, well, you know "gender" batshittery.

My own view is that as the practical implementation of gender batshittery becomes to happen more at the coalface the problems will become so apparent and then there will be pushback for if nothing else then it becomes literally impossible to write meaningful sentences.

I think this is a good, well-considered letter. Hurrah!

True.

But I think they are also coming from the POV of children in education and what might be considered 'boy' subjects, whereas STEM subjects should be for everyone.

So they're focusing on how to break out of sexist stereotypes or 'gender'.

But trans ideology explicitly ties you to a gender/sexist stereotype. Crazy nonsense.

Thank you for going public.

That was to EverDigby.

Is ‘transgender’ used in the EA2010? I thought the protected characteristic was gender reassignment?

All of this demented word salad will have to be repealed at some point. Sex has got to be protected and segregation retained where appropriate for dignity/safety and being gender non conforming has also got to be protected.

I think that’s a good letter given the level of confusion and batshittery we’re currently dealing with.

Mldgebabe. It was cathartic writing that war and peace of a letter.

The other thing was, I was giving feedback through my company rep, and was worried that the message will probably not get though. So I thought sod this, I'm writing it in my own words, straight to the CEO, and see if anyone would listen.

I think that’s a really good response. It comes across that they have really thought about the questions and given a properly considered reply rather than one that just ticks the woke boxes. That’s sadly unusual enough to be noteworthy.

I think it’s good in that it’s thoughtful and not the typical mindless corporate reach for diversity points via Stonewall. So credit to them for not doing that and for being able to actually think critically. Your letter is also a signal to them to look closely before throwing their lot in with Stonewall in the future. So excellent consciousness raising.

I’ve been thinking of writing to the CEOs in my field who have signed up to the Stonewall agenda to ask them if they understand exactly who they are supporting. This is giving me encouragement.

Btw my autocorrect is wanting to correct Stonewall to Atonewall. Which might be a good new name for them when they eventually have to rediscover their roots and build bridges with gay people and women again.

Go for it Reckoner.

Any interaction with Stonewall has been through partners who have relationships with them.

I am unnerved at Stonewall’s reach. Good there hasn’t been direct input, but they really seem to be everywhere.

I think thats a really good response. They are being as sensible and logical as it's possible to be without outwardly ridiculing gender ideology which they are probably aware would be a PR issue.

Quite encouraging. Nice job

This part: For instance, in society and the workplace, ‘sex’ plays out through social stereotypes of gender

Shouldn't it be "gender plays out through social stereotypes of sex"?

Atonwall

Maybe I should forward this to my professional body who ignored my email about their policy conflating sex and Gender.

Pretty positive response, well done for speaking up

Good. I'm not too surprised...for one thing, engineers live in the real world, where things have to work . But mainly because engineering is a field which is acutely aware of their sex imbalance and also skills shortages. They need girls to get interested in it, they need talented young women (who may have a lot of other options) to do degrees, then enter and stay in engineering.

Errol. I wasn’t too sure what I was expecting to get back, given how doctors and the medical professions, scientists and academics seem to buy into the trans gender bollox.

And all those super woke, super intelligent Oxbridge students.

They are supposed to be thinkers! FFS.

I'm not sure this is a win or not.

I think it's a win. They have clearly engaged with the substance of your concern. They are aware of this issues (which in itself provides some protection from the silly claims of Stonewall). They seem to be thinking about equality without having any interest in trying to seem to be thinking about equality- that suggests a very healthy attitude.

Well done OP.

It's a bit word salad to me, but it looks like they have seriously looked at things which surely is positive?

• I wasn’t too sure what I was expecting to get back, given how doctors and the medical professions, scientists and academics seem to buy into the trans gender bollox.

Doctors are, in general, not actually scientists. I haven't heard much evidence of people from the other STEM disciplines buying into genderism rather than reality.

And all those super woke, super intelligent Oxbridge students.

I'm pretty sure the 'super woke' are a vocal minority. My intel on Oxbridge^^ engineering students suggests they are far to busy with their degrees to engage in student politicking, and equality issues are still about actual women.

Genderisaprison Would you consider posting your letter? Or give some tips for others who are also inclined to follow your lead? The women here represent so many disciplines... maybe a rough template? It's a daunting task to figure out how to best communicate with those in "power". I LOVE that you went with your gut and aimed straight at the CEO. Writing letters doesn't always come easy. With an issue this complex and important, it's hard to know where to start. We have so many voices to be heard. PULL