Why do we separate things such as toilets by gender?

[irnbruforlife]

I understand the reasons for separating things by sex. Penis vs vagina. Common sense. But what are the reasons for separating by gender? I cant think of a single one. Perhaps we should petition for all things to be mixed gender on the basis that there is no point. Then watch the general public go apeshit over it. Atm I dont think the general public really understand the consequences of having gender being the definitive over sex.

If you look at the transcript of the last two days of Woman's Hour, and Jane's take down of it, it's all about trying obfusticate and blur what 'sex' means, the validity of 'sex' at all, and making it all about gender solely so that it's ok for men to enter women's spaces. That's all. That's the only thing this is about. It's about casting enough confusion to make it 'ok'.

Offer third spaces, which solve everyone's problems equally, no, they won't do, because there's no women in them. Women, present, undressing, unable to separate themselves in any way is absolutely essential to the goal.

Its a case of repeatedly pointing out the lies, refusing to accept the language, refusing to participate in the ideology and repeating over and over, no. I don't believe this. I don't consent. This is morally and ethically wrong.

I too struggle with maintaining gender specific spaces (but not sex specific spaces). Why bother?

Isn’t the logical way to implement allowing spaces to cater to all gender identities is make everything mixed sex?

This might not be the ultimate aim as per knickknack’s post,but isn’t this the way policy is going to be implemented?

You might just as well separate by political beliefs or musical interests

I don’t want to share the toilets with anyone playing a bassoon.

That would be most unhygienic.

But surely they ARE asking for single sex toilets - because transwomen are women?

That's a great idea, LikeDust.

But surely they ARE asking for single sex toilets - because transwomen are women?

Transwomen are not the same sex as women.
Even stonewall knows there is a difference between sex and gender.

What’s the difference between “sex” and “gender”?
In common language the terms “sex” and “gender” are used interchangeably. However,
it is very important to distinguish between them as they have quite different meanings.
^The term “sex” refers to a person’s biological or anatomical identity as male or female.
The term “gender” is normally used to describe those personality characteristics and
social roles society normally attributes to maleness or femaleness.^

C&p'd from https://www.stonewall.org.uk/sites/default/files/transgenderbooklett_2004.pdf

Transwomen are not the same sex as women.
Even stonewall knows there is a difference between sex and gender.

Oops. Sorry - my comment was ambiguous. What I meant was, I think this is the way the TRA argument is developing. It started off by mixing up sex and gender but there has been a pushback from that - not least because sex is a protected characteristic. Lately the arguments seem to be gearing towards getting transwomen recignised as female SEX because sex is not just about genitalia. At least that is what I have seen argued! I think this makes it harder to counteract.

@LikeDust that video is hilarious!!

Yes, Kew - there are a few TRAs trying that (frankly ridiculous) line. At least at the moment, that bit of the stonewall doc doesn't support it. Also from their glossary:

'SEX
Assigned to a person on the basis of primary sex characteristics (genitalia) and reproductive functions. Sometimes the terms ‘sex’ and ‘gender’ are interchanged to mean ‘male’ or ‘female’.'

www.stonewall.org.uk/help-advice/glossary-terms#s

In this context, the 'assigned' is helpful in that - using their own terminology- they're referring to the natal sex not acquired by a 'sex change'.