Netflix Sabrina and Trans Character

[CrazyToast]

Anyone watched Sabrina the Witch on Netflix? Its quite good. There is a character who may be trans, Susie, who appears gender neutral and is called a boy-girl, and who is happy to be called male. Nice character, fair enough. Susie is inspired by her ancestor Dorothea who dressed masculine and was a pirate. Dorothea inspires Susie to be brave. All great.

But- I am annoyed that Dorothea could easily be a female-identifying woman, straight or lesbian, who was rejecting the restrictions on her sex at the time. Not necessarily trans.

I don't have a problem with either representation but I wish it was clear what the score is. Because it isn't, I feel that it is erasing both potential identities, either as trans or as a woman pushing back against oppression.

I don't think she's trans - she's happy to be called 'she' for instance. She's bullied (with undercurrents of lesbophobia) by her family for dressing how half of us dressed in the 80s, back when hyper-femininity wasn't apparently considered the norm, and any girl straying for it is super-special and needs protecting.

And Dorothea - well, TBH I just read her as many women of the day, the tales of women who dressed as men to get shit done - and ignored the weird posturing of it being anything beyond that.

What I found disturbing about Sabrina is that these are supposed to be 16 year olds - high school kids, and the normalisation of extreme sexual activity - not to mention nudity from what was supposed to be a 15 year old sabrina, was over the line in my opinion.

If this is a show about magic wouldn’t a trans character be able to change sex anyway? Or become a unicorn?

The trans issue has become a real world problem because the real world isn’t amenable to wishes.

What difference does it make for the love of God? People irl don't fit neatly into boxes, why should characters in a TV show?

In the show she appears to be a GNC girl, I only watched a couple of episodes tbf.

I’ve watched the whole series - I don’t remember ‘trans’ being mentioned once. Susie is gender-non conforming/presents in a masculine way a lot of the time, and is bullied and physically assaulted for that, but there is never any suggestion that she is actually not female. In fact her assault inspires them to form a women’s group. Dorothea is also clearly a woman, defying gender constraints as best she could in her own time. I was actually pleasantly surprised and pleased that the characters and their stories were featured so heavily without any doubt cast as to their sex, or that Susie might actually be trans etc.

I agree the normalisation of group sex/S&M is a bit off for a teen show, but not exactly extreme IMO, and it was all the witches getting up to sexual hijinks rather than the humans, it was clearly a different (fictional) culture. I appreciated the scene when Sabrina declined to take part in group sex but wasn’t shamed for that choice, there was no expectation on her.

I also thought Susie was simply gnc but absolutely a girl and her aunt a woman who gets shit done of her time. I agree about the hyper sexualised actions of 15/16 year old's, that's what i find very icky.

She is referred to as 'young man' by her friend's gran and calls herself that. As well as boy-girl by the demon.

She's not trans ffs!

"In the original Sabrina script, Susie was written as a trans man who came out early in the series. Speaking to Bustle, Lachlan said: "I may have influenced the writers to hold off. I talk so much about myself and my identity as a non-binary person and I think they listened, and if anything it helped them understand that labels aren’t everything. Susie is on an ongoing queer journey, just like myself".

For those asking why it matters--- popular media is an important context to frame how society thinks about a variety of things, including gender.

I think she’s a girls that’s gender neutral. Apparently they were going to portray the character as a trans boy (a girl who Ids as male) but decided to take the story slowly. I do like the fact that her tormentors are all male, so true to life.

The friends gran is actually blind by the way
suzie isn’t Trans, she’s just not presenting herself in a way that was seen as typically female. She’s a girl though

The gran calls her 'young man' because not only is she old fashioned but she can't bloody see properly! The demon calling her 'boy-girl' is not because she's trans. Likewise the bullying. It's stupid taunts,like you sometimes get in school, over someones appearance.

Some people are so bloody trans obsessed it's insane. I can only hope Santa brings you a grip for Christmas!

She's non binary and enjoys being called a boy. Sorry ladies, she's not a bastion for gender non conforming feminists. Surprised you would expect that from a show aimed at teens.

It's hardly trans obsessed-- being trans is a current emotional and political topic in western society and this is a new show aimed at young people. Why wouldnt they have a trans character?

But- I am annoyed that Dorothea could easily be a female-identifying woman, straight or lesbian, who was rejecting the restrictions on her sex at the time. Not necessarily trans.

It was very briefly explained in the show that Dorothea had to wear men’s clothes for safety. She had to pretend to be a man. Lone women were not safe when she was alive.

The gran is blind but has 'the cunning' so a second sight and knows what is going on as well as having additional insight. She is supposed to be sensing who Susie truly is despite being called Susie and soundinglike a girl.

She is referred to as 'young man' by her friend's gran and calls herself that.

Yes and she positively beams with joy at being called it. Not just the once either. The gran has “the cunning” which is the ability to see things that aren’t visible to others. The gran sees susie’s true feelings about how she identifies. They didn’t out and out label susie as trans but that’s were it’s headed. Definitely.

Xpost OP!

I think it’s a very good thing when the media features characters like this who don’t fit the usual norms. There are so many kids out there who are a bit different and it’s good for them to feel that is ok.

For anyone who is impressed by this show having a trans or GNC character, don’t be so easily bought. This was nothing other than a box ticking exercise. Same with their uber feminism. Watch the show again and count how many times 15 year old Sabrina is naked. Teenage orgies with lots of writhing girls in underwear, but the sex scene between Aunt Zelda (not a teenager ) and father Blackwood? Cut away at the fully clothed kissing. Massive sense of the male gaze in this show. Huge! Where are the mothers for Harvey, susie and Roz? They have fathers but no mothers. Where are they? Do they not have mothers for reasons that are important to the show but they forgot to tell us or are mothers just not actually that necessary to include?

Ah, I was watching and initially was pleased to see a girl who was not particularly feminine as a main character.

How disappointing that they might be taking the line that that means she isn't really a girl.

I stopped watching after the seventh episode. I loved the dark tone of the show but it didn't really hold me. The very contrived feeling to Sabrina's mortal school friends was one of the reasons I found it a bit tedious, amongst others.

I'm bumping this old thread because reading it now is very sad - since Series 2 has come out and to my huge disappointment, Susie is in fact...Theo. And tries out for the boy's basketball team and gets on, thanks solely to Sabrina using magic to make her amazing at basketball.

It's so, so disappointing that the show would take a character of the only girl in the series who doesn't conform to girly stereotypes AND is bullied and abused by her father and other boys at school for not being girly enough, and instead of being proud of being a girl able to dress and be how she wants, oh no in fact she was a boy all along.

Here is an interview with Lachlan Watson who plays Susie/Theo, talking about their own personal journey from lesbian to trans man to non-binary, and how it influenced the series. Trigger warning: images of top-surgery scars, possible glorifying of scars and pain. www.refinery29.com/amp/en-us/2019/05/232331/lachlan-watson-top-surgery-scar-interview

Susie isn’t trans she’s non-gender confirming. She’s happy to be referred to as male and female and neither.