Women Returner Programmes: Experiences, Please!

[arranfan]

I was away with for recently and in the hotel I spent some time with some women who were all staying there (at their own expense) after an assessment day that they'd attended.

What they reported shook me to my core. They were on an assessment day for training to prepare them for an entry-level job. Women returners were among the targeted demographic for the initiative.

By the women's best guess, somewhere between 15-20% of them were women returners who'd previously been employed in the Big Four consultancy firms or a Well Known law firm. They were applying for this having been turned down by the various consultancies' returner programmes. Nobody had a sense for how many of the other women were returners from the boutique firms that are a step down from the Big Four etc.

A hefty percentage of the other women seemed to have higher education and experience in industry or science research.

A number of the women had travelled from other countries for the opportunity to attend this assessment day. (They were all self-funded for any travel or accommodation.)

Does anyone know how successful women returner programmes are? How many of these are aimed at effectively not returning women to their former seniority but dropping them to an entry-level position?

Does anyone have any positive experiences to share, please?

Subbing.

I keep looking at returner programs, but they all seem a bit "flimsy"? To me.

I was shocked. One of the younger women who had young children was hacked off that the interviews included questions about willingness to travel and be away from home for extended periods.

The advertising for the programme had emphasised that it was designed to be supportive of flexible working around family life and yet it seemed essential to state that you'd be willing to travel with no notice and for indefinite periods.

They'd also had amazing presentations on their future salaries if they got through the process. But the presenters kept glossing over the fact that they were talking about salaries for those with years of experience in the field and training far beyond what was on offer: all that was genuinely on offer (even if the on-the-job training element materialised) was entry-level. And the salaries were less than half of those being quoted as what they could expect.

Flimsy to the point of being positively threadbare. I'd be horrified to think that this is the quality of returner programmes on offer.

All the returner programs I've seen either seem to require a couple of years "retraining" with week-long residential, or you are expected to move for a job at the end of it, or they just have ridiculously high expectations of qualifications and experience.
They seem a bit of a scam to me.

This is interesting to me. I have had a 5 year career break (kids now both in school). I had a 2nd interview yesterday for a role which is as Senior as when i left (in a different company). I was asked about my break and explained our circumstances. I now have a 3rd (final) interview.

I would have probably been interested in a returners training programme if offered, but the second they mention entry level stuff i would be out of there. I used to work for a big 4 and it doesn't surprise me that they want all the experience and flexibility but will pay none of the price. I will never work big 4 again.

I've heard back from a couple of the attendees. It seems that this programme is long on rhetoric, short on delivery. By the time they get going, they'll be almost 6 months behind schedule and that's if, and only if, Brexit doesn't cause any notional future employers to rescind their 'practical experience during the course' programmes.

And, yes, for these entry-level jobs, a ludicrous number of the women being put forward seem to have post-graduate qualifications and a work history that includes Big 4 or near-to-it experience.

It saddens me that more women aren’t starting and running businesses to employ other women. If they’re not getting a look in within male dominated businesses they’re more than capable of doing something for themselves and creating opportunities for other women.

I’ve always been self employed so never come across anything like this, but having recently started looking for work outside of the house I’m genuinely shocked at how low salaries are and how much is expected of people like me trying to get into full time employment without a handy wife at home picking up the slack.

I’ve seen a scheme for experienced returning professionals. And that did seem to work out for at least a few people. The thing is, if you’re not doing entry level then Ithat you need to get hiring managers bought into hiring these candidates, leaders to be expecting it of their managers and asking questions when not and senior leaders to personally sponsor. Issues I found include

• getting hiring managers seeing experience rather than lack of current market experience
• the reasons why the women left the jobs in the first place are often still there
• where jobs have been able to be chopped up to be family friendly and or less than full time these are normally already held by current employees (often most ml mothers) who will often then remain in those roles to keep their flex. And that can actually mean less family friendly new roles can be created.
• entry level is frankly often cannon fodder. And if that is for consultancy then going to the arse end of nowhere for weeks at a time is pretty standard. Workable when a single 22 year old, not workable when you have 2 kids.

I think it can work quite well where a person has specialist skills albeit with a gap in time and that hiring those skills is very hard.

My experience is civil service. You can have up to five years as a career break and maintain the right to come back to a same-level post in the same department, though you probably won’t get a choice about what you’re doing.

It’s just not an issue. The new manager plans an induction as usual, the person may be a bit rusty and need some extra support or confidence boosting at the start, but that’s core managerial skills.

So are we looking at helping the returners, when we should actually be looking at changing attitudes amongst the managers? I know it would be hard, but my experience shows it can work.

No useful experience to share but placemarking as I'm fascinated to see if these much vaunted corporate schemes are actually shit.

Civil service arrangement sounds decent.

Doesn't remotely surprise me. I was a big 4 senior manager on a career break. Tried to return at the end of it to be told no roles unless I dropped down a pay grade and increased my hours. I previously had a no travel agreed because of family circumstance and was told I needed to be prepared for regular travel to London (plane journey away).

When I tried to find out where there roles in other departments I was told it was my responsibility to find them by looking at external and internal ads (despite having no access to the internal system on career break).

In the end I was told a "recruitment freeze" meant there were no jobs and made redundant. I may as well have left rather than been on a career break, it meant nothing to my ability to go back.

You can imagine my delight when I saw them launch their flagship women returning to the workplace after career break programme with all bells and whistles in the national press. Taking abiht how valued women are and how flexible they are.... At the same time I received my redundancy cheque.

Would never ever go back to Big 4. There are also virtually no part time/flexible/some homeworking jobs available outside of big English cities. Which means any job I can get now will be significantly below my actual expertise. What a waste!

*were there roles

Recommend looking up She's back on Facebook and Twitter to discuss this further. They are a group dedicated to helping mothers navigate professional careers and discuss returnships etc.. there are lots of ex big 4/lawyers. I would never go back,. I do wonder how successful these programmes are.

I've obviously not spent enough time here as I completely missed this thread!

I went back after a five year break to a large city institution on their returner programme. I went back same level/slight promotion from where I'd left and with a huge payrise and can honestly say it's been fantastic and transformative. I'm sure there's some dross out there, but when it's done well, it can be amazing. The programme I'm on has a 90%+ retention rate at 3 years.

i'd recommend Women Returners to get a feel for what's out there.