Parliament and upcoming debate

[Tinlegs]

Apologies if this is already somewhere.

There is a video on the "We Need to Talk" Facebook page which is David T Davies asking a question in Parliament about trans in prisons. The minister answers then Bercow says there will be "an adjournment debate" to hear views.

Can't post a link as worried it will show my Facebook name but anyone know anything more? Also, off out (school concert) but will check back later so sorry about that.

www.facebook.com/DRradfem/videos/358132194993548/

Interesting how the Speaker makes a point of telling that other views that are different to David TC Davies will also be heard. Worth a listen.

It has been confirmed today that it will be a Westminster Hall debate which is an extended version, so they will allow a full discussion rather than an End of Day debate which would only allow about half an hour for David T C Davies to ask the question and the minister to respond.

We now need to let our MPs know exactly how we feel regarding this.

The important thing here is that either way, a Minister has to reply.

Is there anything to say when this will be?

.

We don’t have a lot of time to respond to this. The debate is on Wednesday morning (21st November 9.30 - 11.00). It should be on Parliament TV.

I reckon Bercow has got some treachery up his sleeve. He has been putting something together to stitch up David TC Davis, gender critical feminists and women prisoners for sure.

Sneaky fucker.

Yes he was very pointed in stating that many of the other views will be different. He wasn't sounding very impartial. What part will other MPs play in the debate? Can they ask questions in response to what they've just heard or do they have to register a desire to speak before hand?

It’s a good time because lots of MPs will be around for PMQs, but don’t know what other business is on at the same time (and it’s anyone’s guess what will be happening by then!) It’s not in the house, it’s in Westminster Hall. MPs are supposed to register to speak in advance of the debate.
OP, would it be worth asking to add an Urgent to your title to try to garner more interest?

We don’t have a lot of time to respond to this. The debate is on Wednesday morning (21st November 9.30 - 11.00).

I’ve emailed my MP to ask them to attend. They ignored me on the GRA consultation but I am optimistic that they really can’t continue to ignore the question on trans prisoners. Karen white is just one example of what will inevitably happen if we house men in with women in UK prisons.

I can only imagine how terrifying and humiliating it is for a woman to be locked up in a prison cell with someone with a penis.
This has to stop. Women prisoners need safety, privacy and dignity.

They should not be having to experience, (or fear) rape and sexual assault and being perved on by rapists and child abusers. Male bodied prisoners are playing the system for validation, or sexual opportunity, or both.

A dedicated space on the male prison estate is the right place to house male bodied people who identify themselves as female, if prison authorities don’t think they can prevent male violence against them.

Female bodied prisoners, however they identify, also should remain housed on the female estate.

Is there a demonstrated need for a safe third space within women’s prisons for female-bodied people who identify themselves as male?

No- because we all know that the overwhelming majority of violent and sexual crime is committed by men.

So now we are back to the very obvious question of how anyone sane could think it is safe or appropriate to house men in with women in prisons..

Is this the same debate ?
mobile.twitter.com/LilyMadigan98/status/1063192990468972544

Worth noting MPs are being reached put to about "trans people's right to exist " with no focus on the specific context of self id in prisons.

Massive eye roll.
What is this crap about ‘right to exist’?
Every single person who is born, already exists.
What a stupid, manipulative, untruth to claim that this is what MPs want to talk about in this debate. It reveals massive psychological projection.

I had never heard of a Westminster Hall debate. I've had a quick google and it says that Westminster Hall debates are chaired by the Deputy Speaker and are designed to give a more constructive debate. There is no vote.

What should I ask my MP to do and what can these debates produce?

You could ask your MP to attend to hear about the issues and to understand more about the risks for female prisoners in being housed with male bodied people (who identify as female). You could maybe add a link to some news coverage of the Karen White case?

Thank you Chatty, I'll give it a go. I've already discussed Karen White with him. He will probably be busy with Brexit and party issues.

MPs are being reached put to about "trans people's right to exist "

MPs need to read some of the quotes from key TRAs on what is actually meant by this. For example JBs quote that they only felt their chosen identity existed when others serviced it by carefully using the chosen language to confirm it.

The concept that someone can only feel they exist if they are in amongst women prisoners is one that needs serious challenge. Their 'right to exist' in this mental space cannot be a priority over the needs and best interests of everyone else, and it cannot be the responsibility of every other human in their vicinity to focus themselves on servicing and providing the headspace for that person to feel validated 24/7. And that's coming from the pov that this desire for this headspace is genuine as opposed to someone finding it a very useful narrative to get themselves other opportunities.

Other people have rights too.

[researchbriefings.parliament.uk/ResearchBriefing/Summary/CDP-2018-0254?fbclid=IwAR0acGDA2cD4UHNBpC-_b8OBhVMV43VxbRAk3yxEmHHMAMXDhyaAwhuLMlc]
This is the link, it's a discussion about the proposal to allow self identification.

Sorry
researchbriefings.parliament.uk/ResearchBriefing/Summary/CDP-2018-0254?fbclid=IwAR0acGDA2cD4UHNBpC-_b8OBhVMV43VxbRAk3yxEmHHMAMXDhyaAwhuLMlc
Hope that works.

Thank you for the link

The articles provided to MPs in that report are heavily biased towards pro self ID/anti womens rights sources. BBC, Guardian, is there any article there that genuinely puts forward women's issues? The whole report mentions women's rights briefly in passing as a pat on the head type of yes, yes, shut up.

Can we put together a list of links to more balanced and other POV articles and provide as many MPs with an equal number of GC ones? While pointing out (yet again) how very biased this is?

I have just written to my MP pointing out the preponderance of Guardian articles, mentioning Janice Turner, Andrew Gilligan and James Kirkup for other views.

Rowantrees might be able to provide references.

The Andrew Gilligan Times article which mentions Jan Morris but goes on to document the difficulties women have had with even meeting to discuss self id is a good one www.thetimes.co.uk/article/be-kinder-on-gender-begs-jan-morris-6xb9rrhwx but it may be behind a pay wall.

In fact he has written no end of good articles on this if you search his name on the Times web-site.

There is another thread on this www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3425914-Westminster-GRA-debate-Wednesday-21st-Nov

Thank you. I'm trying to search out the best three to send my MP. And since apparently they're only interested in the views of men, so far I'm leaning towards male journalists. The Times, the Spectator.