Autism = "extreme male brain"

[Treasure114]

www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-6381259/Autism-extreme-version-male-brain.html

I am disappointed that this theory's been put out there again, I think it is really sexist. I also thought it had been debunked years ago but this article is from today!? I would love to hear others' thoughts.

This ‘male brain’ language is exactly the sort of thing that has prevented girls from getting adequate diagnosis and support.

TRAs don’t want proper research because if a physiological reason for being trans is ever found, they know it will likely only be identifiable in the classic transsexual profile (Blanchard’s HSTS type) and all the autogynephiles, furries in skirts, and con men enjoying their new protected identities will be shit out of luck.

As a parent of an ASD teen, I would love for there to be more research into autism. Not because I would change my kid for the world (boy did he get me working hard and teach me a whole world of stuff!) but because I don’t think the vaccine damage theory will ever completely die down until an alternative reason is found.

My other child was recently diagnosed with a one in a million, life threatening autoimmune disorder and we’re now semi permanent residents of the paediatric haemotology/oncology ward - my daughter’s immune system has been deliberately shut down by medics so unvaccinated kiddies are a much scarier prospect to my family than non-neuro-typical kiddies!

Aspie you should be proud - your encyclopaedic knowledge and idiosyncratic sense of humour is an absolute delight to behold.
I think you are a great ambassador for autistic spectrum people (whether you intend to be or not 😃).

the question is, whose brain have I been given then, and can I have my brain back if so.

I see this research is based on a questionnaire. I'd like to see the questions. Baron-Cohen's book from a few years ago was full of bollox like 'more women than men like coffee mornings and therefore ..." so i'm suspicious of the assumptions being made in this research.

How do they explain female autism then, are they saying female's with autism have male brains?

Dh took part in a study about this about ten years ago. It involved tests and discussion with those carrying out the study. It was to find out whether it is a 'male brain', why autism spectrum is more common in men.

The final meeting was really interesting as I was invited and it gave a real insight into his thinking. I obviously don't know the results of the study but every study into autism must be useful.

I agree though that the term 'male brain' must be very unhelpful for girls and women with aspergers or autism.

The previous research was based on preferences as well. Nothing to do with hardwiring ie brain structure

The previous research was based on preferences as well. Nothing to do with hardwiring ie brain structure

The condition is defined in terms of behaviour, not brain structure; that’s why all the questionnaires refers to ‘preferences’ and such. There will be an organic cause because it is a lifelong condition but the condition isn’t defined by that cause.

Aspie
Yes that's why i think the references to brains are misleading

my son didn't get an autism diagnosis until quite late because …..its a good one ............he presented like a woman with autism not a boy with autism!

They really need to sort this out.

From the article

Cambridge academics tested questioned 670,000 people and found men are typically believe themselves to be better at analysis and problem solving and better suited to rule-based jobs such as engineering.

Fixed it Daily Mail and Cambridge University. You're welcome.

I don't think it's ok that the vast proportion of autism research spending (largely US based) is based on finding causes and is part of a cure narrative.

Neither does Baron-Cohen. He made precisely the same parallel with eugenics that you did.

However the majority of people with autism aren’t ‘high functioning’. It’s a debilitating condition for most of us. Aspies like myself dominate the online discourse on the subject because we can and this gives a false sense of autism in general.

‘High functioning’ doesn’t mean Lisbeth Salander or Sheldon Cooper, it means having an IQ of 70 or above. About half of autistics have learning difficulties as well as sensory processing issues. If you have autistic children you may be committing yourself to a lifetime of care. I think parents should have a choice in whether that is what they want.

Yes that's why i think the references to brains are misleading

I agree that the male brain and female brain labels are bloody awful. As I’ve said, if he’d called it the ‘androgenic’ or ‘testosterone’ theory it would have been a lot less controversial because testosterone isn’t an exclusively male hormone.

I think Baron Cohen has moved on a lot!
The ring finger thing is hilarious, especially if as some newspapers did you get confused between whether you are supposed to compare palm side up or from the back - most/lots get different results depending on which way up the hand is. Even more funny if they are trying to predict if you are gay or not.
Personally I believe people are like a 2 D scatter diagram, ASD is a big grouping towards one corner. (Actually knowing ASD it's probably a £D scatter diagram and a spherical type grouping towards one corner - but I can't really visualise that.)
But what do you expect from the Mail?

And yes the Trans thing worries me - and relies on lots of circular thinking: to get GRC you have to show a Doctor you present as a certain sex, this requires you behaving like a stereotypical "woman" say, therefore if you act like a stereotypical "woman" and like "womanly" things you should call yourself a woman (and vice versa), and if you are a woman you should like and behave like the stereotype. BUT what about everyone else? And what if you consider (and are biologically female) yourself a woman but don't like Barbies? or Make up? Or dresses? or Long hair? Or prefer mechanics? Or work in science? or...

Covered in The Times this morning:

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/men-and-women-do-think-differently-say-scientists-sex-differences-bbfkhgs3h?shareToken=3c0c3fe849704deb90896eb86ccb84ca

However, they said that it was not apparent to what extent they were down to inherited characteristics or socialisation.

I detest the extreme male hypothesis.

Another way of looking at the fact that you're 7 times more likely to be gender nonconforming if you're autistic is that maybe autistic people are just more resilient to heteronormative culture. Maybe the 7 times more likely thing is reflective of what neurotypical population would be expressing if they (we) weren't so bound by patriarchal stereotypes of gender.

For once I agree with you bespin

Remember he’s on the psychological side not the molecular side. He has no research to show any of this is true biologically. It’s a theory based on his opinions and psychological constructs rather than any ‘wet’ science.

He’s done research by questionnaire- which works for some stuff. It shows you what people may think and feel, but it says nothing about the why or the how.

I agree with Spannablue, Bespin AND Bowl!

Is there some sort of Improbability Drive operating on MN today?

i girls were more likely to be considered OCD, or have eating disorders, & have interests in collecting crafts & fantasy fiction/films (not trying to stereotype here!) as be more able to "mask" socially but they are/tend to be more socially immature/clumsy/naïve/vulnerable

Godamnit have you met me?

I have always had problems with the 'male brain' thing mainly because I have 'male' interests (fantasy/ comics/ WWII) but when younger I looked ridiculously feminine - blonde curls, tiny wrists.

One almost boyfriend told me he thought I'd got interested in these things 'just to impress him'......

"sorry, but I don't have a male brain. The nice lady at the FBI made me give it back and was very stern about it."

My female brain (because I'm an adult human female) is too tired to articulate properly right now but has always been inclined towards way more 'traditionally male' talents, interests, traits etc., possibly because I'm autistic and didn't fall in with quite all of the female socialisation, despite masking to the point of exhaustion my entire life. Thank God they weren't diagnosing transgender when I was a teen. I would have missed out on the greatest joy of my life - my children (sorry DH).

There must be millions of undiagnosed aspie women out there. If we're all diagnosed eventually they'll start reporting that more and more women now have male brains instead of revising the stupid theory for being tosh in the first place.

Greetings fellow aspie MNetters 😊

As someone who teaches and has taught children with autism for well over a decade, once again it's impossible to generalise. It (gender conforming or not) also can be dependent on how severely impaired the child is by the autism.

This is a good brief over view of some research into all this that I must say I agree with from my personal experience.

parentingsciencegang.org.uk/web-chats/how-different-are-womens-and-mens-brains/

A query I posed on a thread recently actually is how does the incidence of trans identity issues among those with asd who go to sen schools compare with those in mainstream schools. Difficult to quantify though I fear as all leas organise their provision differently.

This is pertinent as I believe children with autism in a specialist school are able to express themselves more freely without fear of being labelled or influenced as 'trans'. But also ime the majority in an sen school are actually quite gender conforming because they have mild, moderate or severe learning difficulties along side their autism and (in my experience) take the world/ follow the rules as it is given to them/ as they've been brought up. (Simply my experience). I only know of one very gender non conforming child. They were very socially able and actually received the asd diagnosis surprisingly late given they had been attending an sen school.