The effects of hormones on gendered behaviour....again!

[ScottCheggJnr]

I've decided to create this thread so as not to derail the other thread about the difference in learning between boys and girls. The below study is one I'd bookmarked a while ago to read at a later date and then forgotten about until said thread reminded me about it.

I'm personally very interested in the effect of hormones, not least because I've noticed a significant change in my character since taking testosterone for a medical problem and noting significant changes in going from a very low to a high level.

I'm about to read the article in full, but below are some pretty controversial statements that stand out, which are particularly relevant to some of the heated discussions I've read on here previously.

I'd be very interested to hear the interpretations of those posters who are more scientifically minded than myself.

Confidence has increased that early androgens affect gender development, in light of recent studies that confirm, extend, and clarify previous findings. Activity interests and participation – from childhood toy preferences to adult hobbies and occupations – continue to be strongly linked to prenatal androgen exposure.

Androgen effects on interest and engagement in male-typed occupations was seen to have economic consequences: women with exposure to high levels of prenatal androgens due to congenital adrenal hyperplasia (CAH) were more likely than controls to have income in the top 20th percentile, reflecting employment in male-typical, higher-paying jobs (despite having lower education, and more psychosocial problems).

Prenatal androgen effects on the tendency to prefer careers that involve things versus people reinforce other suggestions that women might be engaged by STEM when emphasis is placed on its social relevance.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4681519/

Affect 'gender' development - this needs clarifying for me but I have to sleep now

Given the overwhelming amount of studies linked, it's going to take me a while to digest it all too. But it's some pretty interesting stuff.

Research has proved that simply 'gendering' toys reduces the likelihood of girls going into stem. Ie, they don't access them from an early age as marketing if toys is sex based.

What gender does a paintbrush have? Which sex is it intended for?
A paintbrush does not have a gender, neither does a toy car or gun.

But, take away the idea of gender (ie it's a social construct) and what does the research prove?

If you’ve started hormone treatment as an adult I’m not sure why you are quoting research into developmental differences.

As in understand it, androgen levels within the normal range are a poor predictor of behaviour. Changes in hormone levels of the type you find in cheating sportsmen and women is a different matter.

It also depends on social context. Testosterone leads to behaviour which is socially esteemed, so in a competitive environment it leads to selfish, competitive behaviour.l, and in a collaborative environment it leads to pro-social and even self-sacrificing behaviour.

Yes I was going to add that inanimate objects don't have a gender.

Hormones in children come into effect at puberty.

Doesn't this research prove we are all different due to many different tiny influences?

There's evidence to show that a lot of paracetamol taken during pregnancy can affect the baby's fertility if male.

Brains and bodies are so diverse for so many reasons.

Ships have gender :-)

‘Male’ and ‘female’ objects tend to be defined tautologically. Boys toys are boys toys because boys play with them. Girls toys are girls toys because girls play with them.

Prenatal testosterone is one of the possible explanations for autism. I wonder how long before we are dragged under the ‘intersex’ umbrella?

If you’ve started hormone treatment as an adult I’m not sure why you are quoting research into developmental differences.

Because I'm interested in hormonal effects on behaviour in the wider context and because with my treatment as an adult I'm now in a similar position to somebody who naturally has a higher level.

Development seems to be a chaotic system like the weather. It’s something easier to explain in retrospect than to predict.

Brains are incredibly complex. That’s why SSRIs are effective for some people with depression, ineffective for others, and can make the condition far worse in others. You can spend years trying different regimes before you find something that can alleviate the symptoms and by then the condition might have cured itself.

As in understand it, androgen levels within the normal range are a poor predictor of behaviour.

This may not necesarily be the case according to some of the more recent studies.

We were able to show for the first time that increasing levels of testosterone within the normal physiological range can have a profound effect on brain circuits that are involved in threat-processing and human aggression.

www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/280915.php

I think it's also not necessarily mutually exclusive that hormones might affect toy/activity choices but that forcing certain choices might also have individual effects.

Male’ and ‘female’ objects tend to be defined tautologically. Boys toys are boys toys because boys play with them. Girls toys are girls toys because girls play with them.

Girls have ‘girl’ toys shoved at them and boys have ‘boy’ toys shoved at them, pretty much from birth. We really have no idea which each sex would pick, given a completely free choice.

Androgen effects on interest and engagement in male-typed occupations was seen to have economic consequences: women with exposure to high levels of prenatal androgens due to congenital adrenal hyperplasia (CAH) were more likely than controls to have income in the top 20th percentile, reflecting employment in male-typical, higher-paying jobs (despite having lower education, and more psychosocial problems).
Hasn't it been shown that the pay gap has a lot to do with choosing pregnancy/mothering? And aren't CAH women infertile? Correct me if I'm wrong?

Activities are linked to hormone exposure?

But which activities are ‘male’ and which are ‘female’ is location specific.

In the US boys don’t play soccer very much, whereas they do in the UK. In Russia there are far more female engineers and doctors than in the UK.

So how does that work? How do you define a ‘male’ activity?

Hasn't it been shown that the pay gap has a lot to do with choosing pregnancy/mothering?

I thought the pay gap generally struck around the age of motherhood (35-40yo) with women outearning men up until that stage?

So how does that work? How do you define a ‘male’ activity?

I'm assuming the definition is in one of the studies referenced. I'll try and read it although I've yet to wade through the many links.

It does mention a tendency in males to gravitate towards occupations involving 'things' rather than 'people', which would to me suggest technical roles rather than perhaps nursing/teaching etc.

The author of the article has been very, very busy.
An extraordinary number of published works.

Her CV can be found on the web page below
www.personal.psu.edu/faculty/s/a/sab31/people.html

Wow! I thought for a second you were being sarcastic but she has indeed published an intimidating body of research.

It's quite confounding how these and the many studies she links have been overlooked in previous discussions about gender.

Oh, come on! Part 1:

This paper, published in 2016 in an open-access journal called "Current Opinion in Behavioral Sciences" under the title How Early Hormones Shape Gender Development, does not document new findings or discoveries in the hard-sciences. It's an essay giving a broad overview of proposed research & hypotheses that are of interest to, & are (perhaps) to be investigated by, two American academics with PhDs in psychology at "The Berenbaum Lab" at Penn State University.

Though they are bona fide academics with excellent credentials, the authors or their editors chose a misleading title - How Early Hormones Shape Gender Development - probably deliberately because it would make it sound sexy, ultra-timely & newsworthy.

The first paragraph of the paper states:

Ongoing and planned work is focused on understanding the ways in which hormones act jointly with the social environment across time to produce varying trajectories of gender development, and clarifying mechanisms by which androgens affect behaviors. Such work will be facilitated by applying lessons from other species, and by expanding methodology.

The second paragraph, in its entirety, reads:

Why are the sexes different? How does the prenatal environment set the stage for postnatal development? How does behavior result from transactions between the brain and the social world? All three questions are the focus of contemporary work in the behavioral sciences, and they converge in questions regarding prenatal sex hormone effects on gender development, which includes characteristics that show sex differences and that relate to being female or male.