Boys and girls learn differently?

[Hoppinggreen]

DD’s School Facebook page has proudly announced that this morning the teachers attended a workshop on “how boys and girls learn differently “
Is this true? I know it used to be accepted theory but hasn’t it been debunked? If so does anyone have any credible sources ?
I’m not saying there aren’t innate differences in the sexes (penis vs vulva) but surely our brains are actually the same?
Happy to be told I’m wrong but if I’m right I wouid like some concrete info before I tackle it with The Head

Yes any learning differences are a consequence of socialisation.

They don’t actually learn differently, but different approaches may be needed due to conditioning into gender roles.

I agree
Any sources?
I can google I know but if anyone has any they’ve seen then that wouid be great.
Thank you

You are always going to get exceptions though, so it's probably better for teachers to be aware of different learning styles and tailor approaches for.individuals instead of assuming that all girls and boys learn in the different same way.

It's definitely still taught in college (especially in psych departments) that "even preschool girls and boys' behavior varies". The impression is left to students - or sometimes given directly that this is biological/innate as opposed to socialized (because research on the extent of gendered socialization of toddlers is conveniently omitted). Many of these students go on to become preschool educators and bring their impressions with them.

Regardless though, even if it's 100% socialized, I do think it is worthwhile to consider meeting children where they are at, at least to an extent. That is, if a particular child has been socialized to learn in an active, physical way, whereas another child has been socialized to sit quietly and listen, we may be able to accomodate both children's needs, and meanwhile teach children that different ways of learning/being are OK (as long as they do not harm others / prevent others' learning).

One would hope that whoever is running this thing will take pains to point out that these are not innate differences...

Well that’s what I hope to find out
I am going to ask for the content of the session and if it’s pink and blue brains type bollocks I’m not going to be happy

Sounds like generalisations are likely to be made. MRA's blame girls' higher achievements in school on coursework being given more than exams because girls are supposedly delicate flowers who can't handle the pressure of exams. I don't have kids so I can't comment on what kids do in school now, but I imagine they are doing a combination of exams and coursework anyway, as when I was in school. The job of the teacher, as it has always been, is to try to incorporate different styles of learning so that all kids can be engaged, I shouldn't think gender sterotyping of supposed female and male styles of learning are required for that. In my experience of teaching though (adults) men are more likely to be over-confident and women under-confident in their own abilities, but that's again socialisation rather than a learning style.

I do computer coding and at an event one of the well-meaning guys there told me about how he had devised some classes incorporating 'girl topics' such as ballet so as to try to get the girls interested. I bloody hated ballet which I was forced to go to. Surely it's best just to respond to what works for kids on an individual level rather than making assumptions about what will work for them based upon what's between their legs.

Any differences in learning styles would be statistical in any case so dividing the class into boys and girls to teach them differently would be moronic.

Treat kids - and adults for that matter - as individuals, not exemplars of some class.

I think it's probably a spectrum where groups are scattered across it, but some concentrations of sex groups are visible? So maybe the highly verbal group will predictably tend to be girl heavy, and the highly active group will predictably tend to be boy heavy? What effect social conditioning has on creating those groups and what is innate biologically is very much up for debate. What effect ingrained sexism has on supporting behaviour in boys that aren't allowed in girls is also up for debate.

I once challenged my kids' primary school that every topic, every book, was heavily 'boy friendly' (masculine stereotypes). I asked when the girls got a look in? I was told that while the girls would pay attention/put up with and work on any topic or book, the boys were too difficult to engage if it wasn't very typically 'boy' based. Where do you even start with that?

I just asked my dd (13)
She says if there is a difference it’s down to conditioning and “ if I can understand that why can’t they? Duh”

It's down to socialisation.

Aspieandproud - I think the misunderstanding of statistics is quite prevalent in the education system

I don’t think I a lack of understanding of statistics is confined to the education system. It’s endemic.

Completely agree with you there

That is utterly unacceptable and I would complain to the school. There are some very dodgy old-fashioned trainers out there and they shouldn’t be allowed to get away with it (if it’s the same man who trained me he is just AWFUL). So many assumptions, stereotypes and made up statements without evidence.

Education is as susceptible to fads as anything else, with the added pressure of personal hobby-horses dictated by whichever Education Secretary is shoving their way to the top of the party this year. Learning styles were debunked ages ago but the myth persists, for example.

There's so much going on for kids that pointing to sex alone is beyond ridiculous, especially if you don't consider socialisation as part of that. Class and poverty, parental education and attitude to education, and access to books are far more important indicators of how the majority of ordinary mainstream kids will do.

For all those who say there is no difference (on average) between male and female brains and that any observed differences in behaviour are due to socialisation, how do you explain the differences observed in other animals? For instance, in so many species males tend to be the more aggressive and dominant ones.

Learning styles seem to be (at least partly) personality based. It makes sense to offer different learning styles to all children. A stereotyped 'boy' learning style is likely to be appropriate for very many girls too.

I was told that while the girls would pay attention/put up with and work on any topic or book, the boys were too difficult to engage if it wasn't very typically 'boy' based.

All the more reason for the boys to learn to deal with not being the centre of the universe, surely??

I would be suspicious about the training event OP.

I'd go along and severely question any nonsense about there being significant differences between boys and girls, to the point where totally different learning approaches are needed. I'd also be asking how they ensure that such sex based stereotypes do not get passed across to the children. I'd also want to know how they address the individual and don't let these stereotyped ideas dominate and override individual teaching. If I was feeling particularly challenging I'd also ask for evidence that using male/female learning styles actually benefits any of the children.

I would have been beyond irritated if anyone had tried to teach me in some stereotyped idea of what a "feminine" girl should have been taught like. My "learning style" fell into what would be considered a stereotypical male style. Of course it isn't, it's just my personality.

@Thingybob I would imagine differences in other animals are because they are different species...

Well, given that we don't typically educate dogs, cats, lions, harris hawks, emperor penguins and praying mantises in our schools, I'm not sure how relevant other species are to this debate.

Moving back to the actual question - rather than trying to dig out references yourself, OP, I'd ask them for their references - from the peer reviewed literature, with summaries of sample sizes, significance tests (which pertain to how representative of the whole population their experimental sample was) and d-values (which pertain to how different the male and female populations were to each other relative to the spread within each population).

Then I'd follow up with "What difference would it make in practice to your teaching methods?" and "How would you make sure that you weren't crudely stereotyping and thus running the risk of failing boys who learned in a stereotypically 'feminine' way (if there is such a thing), or girls who learned in a stereotypically 'masculine' way (if there is such a thing)?"

Put the onus on them to defend their position and walk you through the practical consequence it is likely to have for your child.

On average there are differences but like many things there's a lot of variation and some girls learn more like boys and vice versa. My DD2 is happiest in male dominated environments whereas dd1 found the super competitive male classes really off putting and consequently quit science and maths (despite maths being her number one subject by far)

It's not been debunked. But the degree to which there are differences in learning between the sexes, and the degree to which sociological factor and physical factors play very contentious and hard to study empirically. Many psychologists think that there are genuine physical differences between "male" and "female" brains, but it's also true that brains are very flexible and versatile -- so it doesn't necessarily immediately follow that these differences are responsible for differences in abilities or intelligence.

Cordelia Fine's books are accessible and contain interesting 'debunkings' of a number of 'arguments' that try to show psychological differences are due to biology. But it's still a matter of debate whether her arguments are conclusive.

I don't ultimately profess to know the answer, but surely teenage boys are much more distractable/disruptive with all the testosterone surging around - it certainly seemed this way at school. Might this not require a different approach to keep them engaged?

That a very one dimensional view of teenage boys. In my experience they are as varied as you like, because, you know, they're all individuals. And parenting that excuses bad behaviour from teenage boys on the grounds of "testosterone" is poor parenting.