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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Irrational beliefs

35 replies

thatdamnwoman · 12/11/2018 11:49

I just caught a programme on Radio 4, Hashtag Pray, about the fact that while more than 50% of the population say they don't have a religion, belief in things like angels is becoming more and more popular.

The lack of critical thinking and the complete and utter belief and investment in something completely unprovable and anti-science reminded me very much of the transgender movement.

www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m0000n94

I checked out one of the websites mentioned,

www.daddyswithangels.org/

Haven't been through many of the pages but is that as creepy as it seemed to me?

OP posts:
FloralBunting · 12/11/2018 16:23

Well, you've only got to look at the appalling close minded behaviour of Oxford students recently to realize that what we used to consider a rigorous education to enable brilliant minds to engage with the world and progress humanity is a shadow of what it was.

ThePrincipal · 12/11/2018 16:26

The current cohort of Oxford student appalls me, considering they are meant to be super intelligent. They come across power hungry and entitled, more than anything.

They are not doing the reputation of Oxford much good, however, why is the management allowing it to happen? Absolute disgrace.

AspieAndProud · 12/11/2018 16:32

From what I remember of being (peripherally) part of the online atheist community it was always obvious which people were atheists because they had reached that decision via skepticism and which had rejected religion for some other reason (often anger at some injustice) but who still had a religion-shaped hole that made them vulnerable to quasi-religious belief systems such as postmodernism.

MIdgebabe · 12/11/2018 16:42

What about the prioritisation of self over others? If you go too far down the road of the all Important self do you then automatically disregard any idea that isn’t your own or that you don’t understand? Does over inflated emphasis on self prevent learning?

Or the preponderance of “fake” news, which makes it easier to find a lot of material supporting your position, you see much less of any opinions that are different to your own?

FloralBunting · 12/11/2018 16:43

Yes, it's certainly been my experience that some people are properly angry ranters who, for whatever reason, maybe justifiable, I don't know, come across as the atheist equivalent of a hard-line fire and brimstone preacher. Others are much more considered and either they just haven't been at all convinced by theist viewpoints or it just has never occurred to them to be engaged with religion and they are very rational and persuasive.

The massive variety of approach possible in the human being on almost anything is one of the things that keeps me trying very hard not to make too many assumptions about people.

ErrolTheDragon · 12/11/2018 17:03

The current cohort of Oxford student appalls me...

I'd lay odds most of the current cohort is busy about the usual mix of studying and socialising, with no time or inclination for student politicking.

ThePrincipal · 12/11/2018 17:06

That’s true and part of the problem, the normal people are too busy to get involved in politics.

Silentlyobserving · 12/11/2018 17:09

Angels feature heavily in religion, so whether it is acknowledged or not they are actually demonstrating a belief in religion, think Archangel Gabriel etc

FloralBunting · 12/11/2018 17:23

Yes, they are. I believe there are angels myself. I think this is perhaps referring to the much less organized popularist version of angels, sort of more folk religion for some, the kind of general woo that is in those 'Spirit and Destiny' magazines. I'm not knocking it if it comforts, uplifts and helps people make good choices, and I understand it's attractions. But it's held on to by a lot of people who would be just likely to reject 'religion' as anyone. It's more generically 'spiritual', if that makes sense.

theOtherPamAyres · 12/11/2018 17:31

I saw an article saying that Transgender ideology would be better placed under Article 9 of the Human Rights Act: Freedom of Belief

^Public authorities cannot interfere with your right to hold or change your beliefs, but there are some situations in which public authorities can interfere with your right to manifest or show your thoughts, belief and religion. This is only allowed where the authority can show that its action is lawful, necessary and proportionate in order to protect:

public safety
public order
health or morals, and
the rights and freedoms of other people^                     

EHRC website: www.equalityhumanrights.com/en/human-rights-act/article-9-freedom-thought-belief-and-religion

In other words, if you hold the belief that trans women are literally women - then that's fine. You have a right to that belief, no matter how irrational. You have a right to express that belief in the clothes you choose or the way that you behave. Other people may not subscribe to it and will reject it - and that is their right too.

Furthermore, society and government are not obliged to make law changes to accommodate or promote your beliefs. You can forget NHS treatments and counselling and special services - that is a matter for you and the followers of the ideology to build yourselves (just like any other religion or non-religious movement like pacificism/veganism/paganism).

It made sense when I read the article - but I can't lay my hands on it now, unfortunately.

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