Zara - is this the shape women should aspire to be?

[TanyaTonyaMargaret]

I was just looking for a dress for my teen dd for Christmas. I looked on Zara www.zara.com/uk/en/sequin-dress-p00387169.html?v1=7386534&v2=1074622.

My dd is average (size 8) and has what my mother would refer to as a ‘good bust’. She’s a similar shape to most of her friends. It’s almost impossible to gauge whether these clothes would look good on her. I have lots of ‘slim’ friends but don’t know anyone who looks even remotely the shape of these women. I know four women who are 6 ft but they don’t look anything like this shape either. To be fair to Zara I then looked at their male clothing to see what their models were like. They were fairly slim but not like the women. I’m not saying they need to use overweight people but just vaguely average would be great.

Hopefully it’s just Zara and I am about to be delighted by what I find on other retailer’s sites. Fingers crossed.

I do suspect that my negative body image is partly due to feeling abnormal , I am skinny normal height but 30g, and I hate it, and models are either skinny and flat or curvy all round

She looks very unfit.

Not so much her weight, but no muscle tone, her arms look weak.

This is slightly stepping away from my original point but @butchyrestingface (good name!) when teens are bombarded and I do mean bombarded on social media, online by people who are deemed to look ‘amazing’ who they will never be able to look like I DO think it diminishes their self esteem. I think it is well documented that it diminishes their self esteem. I think it’s naive to assume that a good talking to from their parents about why they use those sorts of models is going to counteract all of that.

My dd’s (all girls school) is rife with anxiety and self harming, and it’s not that particular school, I hear the same from all girls schools. I have many friends who are teachers who say the same.

That’s a lot of what’s going on Fermats.

I recently bought a wrap style dress with princess seaming and if made such a difference- wrap stays in place. Most manufacturers just rely on a fabric with a bit of stretch being enough shaping.

My mum was really into dressmaking, and she taught me so much about different techniques etc to look for in clothes. You just don’t see so many of them at all now.

I didn't prove any such point! Where have I been casually insulting about thin people? You are putting words into my mouth.

I work with women who regularly have a BMI if 18 - 20, this model is smaller than them. I'd be surprised if her BMI was higher than 17.5.

@Fermats - cap sleeves are the WORST. Oh how I long for a decent sleeve - especially on summer dresses!

What's the issue? This model looks fine. She may not look like most women. But what model does?

Anyone they use isn't going to look like most people.i have weight on me. I don't like all people who have a bit of extra weight.

And yes some clothes look better of thin people some clothes look better on bigger people.

Modelling has come a long way and you are likely to see lots of different shape and size models now.

As I said I have a bit of extra weight. But also have a very small waist. I am a classic hour glass shape. If I modelled I am sure there would be people saying lots of women can't identify with me, of I have had my boobs made bigger, or my has my ass made bigger. When it's simply down to, too many take always and my natural body shape.

Any model is going to have a large group of some that don't look like them.

She looks o.k.

I was like that in my younger days.

Parents have to take responsibility for some of the anxiety and self harming too.
If you let a teen girl have access to Instagram and these photos from a young age then you shouldn’t be surprised if they get upset. Likewise we need to teach our kids how to eat healthily from a very young age.
I expect the next generation will be better at this than us. Managing internet content is so awful and tricky.

I think the summary of this whole thread is this.

Women are different shapes and sizes. No-one is laying criticism at the feet of those who are tall and very slim, short and very fat, average height with big boobs, average height with small boobs, pear shaped, hour glass, big bottoms, small bottoms etc etc. The problem is why is only ONE of those body types represented in women’s retail models?

This is slightly stepping away from my original point but @butchyrestingface (good name!) when teens are bombarded and I do mean bombarded on social media, online by people who are deemed to look ‘amazing’ who they will never be able to look like I DO think it diminishes their self esteem. I think it is well documented that it diminishes their self esteem. I think it’s naive to assume that a good talking to from their parents about why they use those sorts of models is going to counteract all of that.

But that's why I think it's so important that teenagers (especially girls) at least start to develop critical thinking. And by that, I don't mean a "talking to" from their parents. I never said that.

She's going to be bombarded with these images - this has been the prevailing body type that has saturated modelling for around 30 years. It was probably worse 20 years ago, if anything.

I started going bald as a teenage girl, imagine the imagery and advertisements I had to navigate my way through. My response was simply not to read fashion magazines or watch (much) TV. Not a choice for everyone, but I found being different helped me to form critical thinking skills around the issue.

Does your daughter want to be a fashion model? Or has she actually expressed feelings of inferiority relative to the women she sees modelling clothes on sites like Zara?

BioligiFemini - agreed about parental responsibility but I don’t think every anxious, self-harming teen has necessarily had unfettered access to the internet from a young age though.

It is almost impossible to monitor even if you try (limiting screen time, parental controls on the internet etc etc).

The problem is why is only ONE of those body types represented in women’s retail models?

Because generally speaking the clothes photograph better on that particular type.

I didn't even know what "cap" sleeves were. Had to Google. I agree, they suck.

Presumably the store Evans uses +14 models. Imma gonna go have a look at their site.

Bloody hell we really have been brainwashed haven't we?. Clothes are for people to wear. They should be made and modelled with a variety of sizes and shapes and heights in mind

I think there was a comment earlier saying something like ' clothes never look good with boobs so all models have small ones'

WTF. Clothes are for people not the other way round. As women do we really think that it is ok to only make clothes that only look good on 6ft models with very small breasts. I mean really !!

I absolutely think that clothes should be modelled by different height/ size/shape models. Obviously companies would pick the models that best suit each sort of clothing so they look as good as possible

ElectricMonkey - This may come as a shock but I don’t know everyone who lives in my part of the country.

Actually I do know thin chap (but he lives in NZ) if that helps to calm you.

When fashion outlets promote the occasional model who is very slim with more boobs, there is usually an outcry about how unusual that body type is.

I never expect anything to fit me or even look good in Zara. Now i've lost a bit of weight, Gap.is often too boxy for me. M&s tops used to be too short for me but they finalky lengthened them a few years ago. Find shops that do sell clothes that suit your dd, and/or go to a dressmaking class together.

WTF. Clothes are for people not the other way round. As women do we really think that it is ok to only make clothes that only look good on 6ft models with very small breasts. I mean really !!

I don't think they necessarily look better on 6 footers with small boobs, just that they photograph better on a certain type.

They may look equally shit on both types in the cold light of day. . The photos sometimes/often just create an illusion, which is what the brands needs to sell their shit stock.

WTF. Clothes are for people not the other way round.

Only if you make your own.

If you're making them for other people for profit, the correct answer is "neither". They're about that profit margin. Obviously in order to sell them at all you have to give the illusion that they're for people - but sometimes that illusion can be pretty far fetched (I refer you once more to the prevalence of cap sleeves).

“Smaller boobs seem to be de rigour”

About bloody time.

This comment really jumped out at me. Surely small boobs have always been the fashion? If you look back at fashion through the decades, models always had small breasts.

Even in lingerie modelling, you'll not see big boobs in the much hyped Victoria's Secret show, although you will see lots of badly fitting bras which push them into strange shapes and make them look bigger. Even Bravissimo, whose target market is for bigger boobs, had to use stock photos when they started out and didn't have the budget to do their own photoshoots, and they had to explain in their catalogue that they were unable to find photos of models wearing the bras in the sizes that they were actually selling. If I remember correctly, some of the ranges were only manufactured in bigger sizes, so the advertisers had actually had to go out of their way to adapt a bra to a smaller model in order to photograph what it was 'meant' to look like.

I'm not bothered by models being thin, slim is within our own control (and I'm not slim myself, but I'm working on it). But the mainstream fashion industry's obsession with ignoring the existence of boobs is infuriating. There's nothing wrong with being flat chested (it's my dream body shape, what I've always wished I look like) but equally it would be good to have the existence of breasts acknowledged.

I just find it a very, very strange thing to claim that you literally don't know a single thin person

Depends on the term 'know' surely

In my group of friends the smallest is a short size 10, the 17 year olds at work are a size 6 but i dont 'know' them

Ive seen size 6/8 women walking around...i was one myself in my youth

But i dont 'know' them

I agree that it would be good to see outfits on various women...but they are never going to go for that as I imagine it would be too expensive

Plus it may put people off trying the clothes if they see someone who looks like them and they dont look as good as they imagined...even though that person may not look like them ,

Ive mot explained that bit very well at all

This model looks like a slim girl nothing strange about her. Did your size 8 daughter try the dress on ?

treacle

Yes!!!

And lots of clothes are made for a size 6 person for the shows and then just 'expanded' for larger sizes

But that doesnt take boobs into account