Scottish LGBTI Education

[Fantail2018]

Anyone seen this news article?

www.gov.scot/news/lgbti-education/

www.gov.scot/news/lgbti-education/

I just came on to see if there was a thread about this. I heard on the radio news something like 'Scotland will be the first country in the world to have lgtbqi inclusive education'. What's the betting the emphasis will be on the T. The Scottish Govt have really lost the plot while the Scottish public are blissfuly ignorant of what's going on

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I couldn't seem to find much detail in the recommendations as to what they will actually be teaching - in particular what they mean by 'terminologies' which is frustrating.

I also suspect the focus will be on gender rather than sexuality and to the detriment of girls.

"My 5yo haggis just asked me "Daddy, why are the Scottish government indoctrinating children with the Cultural Marxism disease while chaining them to ludicrous
identity nonsense and all masked as liberation, which is what totalitarians always do"

I was so proud of her"

My favourite comment on the twitter thread on it

twitter.com/scotgov/status/1060556451683418112

There's a certain amount of anti-lesbian and anti-gay prejudice running through some of those twitter replies, so I'd be in favour of parts of this initiative - the 'be nice' bit - if it otherwise stuck to facts.

Still echoes of Section 28's ghost rattling around in that, it seems. Scant on detail.

I wish there was actually some concrete details available - can't really judge without them.

Some interesting information in Supporting Transgender Young People (For Scottish Schools). Which may well inform a lot of the new policy.
Lots of points I was unaware of, and some really good information. However puberty blockers are again brushed over as a non event with no mention of side effects.
A few areas I was unaware of - toilets having no sex protection in uk or Scottish schools. Also overnight trips, a trans person can sleep in accommodation of the gender they identify without any parents being aware as there is no risk. Also a child can identify as trans and use different pronouns/toilets and name in school but parents will not be informed without the consent of the child. (I may be reading that bit wrong though).
So far a fair amount of support from Scottish teachers although calls for proper training to ensure all lgbt+ can be supported fully.
Until we see the policy we won't know how good it is. But it needs to be balanced and fair not just about trans.

In the Times:

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/scottish-state-schools-will-be-world-s-first-to-teach-lgbti-issues-lwqrvxbxp?shareToken=3596383929c25ae113096d61e6e57c61

Will be interesting to see what ends up being taught - my DD believes anything a teacher says!

I can't see how these policies work in practise. What happens if a boy suddenly decides he's a girl just before PE lesson. The teacher will not be allowed to inform the girls - so he'll just appear in the girls changing room (possibly while they are partially undressed)? He's allowed to use the changing room of his new gender.

I got a letter from school a few weeks ago about starting "SHARE (Sexual Health and Relationships Education) Safe, Happy and Responsible". Not much in the letter about the actual content.
dd (14) hasn't mentioned anything t, so they might have not started yet. I'll ask her.

I think this is quite alarming-why on earth are state school teaching chilldren about the issues faced by transexuals?
How can the Scottish gov't not see how damaging trans ideology is to children-especially girls?

Oh god, the world's turned upside-down. I was active in the anti-Section 28 campaigning back in the 80s (yes, I really am that old). I saw the headlines in the Scottish press this morning. Ten years ago, or even two, I'd have been completely delighted to see them. As an out lesbian bringing up children in the 90s and early 00s things were difficult, and I would have loved it if my children's schools had tackled homophobia in the way they tackled racism - i.e. teaching for diversity, making sure they provided positive role models, and dealing robustly with any harassment or discriminatory behaviour.

So when I saw the headlines as a queued for coffee this morning I should have been jubilant about a struggle finally won. Instead, my first reaction was despair about what kind of woke nonsense children will be taught - that gender is a feeling in your head and a matter of individual choice, that people can choose their own sex etc etc. Hopefully that's not how it will work out - when I think about the teachers in my children's previous schools I simply can't imagine they would teach anything along those lines, or if they're forced to do it, it won't be with an ounce of conviction.

This is how the working group on inclusive education defines trans:

Inclusive umbrella terms for anyone whose gender identity or gender expression does not fully correspond with the sex they were assigned at birth. Trans people may describe themselves using a wide variety of more specific terms, including (but not limited to) trans women/girls, trans men/boys, non-binary people and cross-dressing people.

This is how intersex is defined:

Intersex is an umbrella term which can be used for people who are born with variations of sex characteristics which do not always fit societies perception of typically male or female bodies. Intersex is not the same as gender identity (our sense of self) or sexual orientation (who we are attracted to), but is about the physical body we are born with.

The report is here www2.gov.scot/Publications/2018/11/2081/7

So I assume children will be taught:
Babies are assigned a sex at birth
There is such a thing as a gender identity
You can be born in the wrong body i.e. your gender identity doesn't match your sex assignation
Human beings can change sex
You can't tell if someone is a boy or a girl.
We don't know where babies come from

I also don't think this a first - didn't the Safe Schools programme in Australia try this?

I think this is the lesson plan for P1 and 2

rshp.scot/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/1.4.3-What-is-gender-1.pdf

Where do parents stand with the right to withdraw their children from these lessons?

www.heraldscotland.com/news/13215077.scottish-government-creationism-banned-from-science-class

I wonder if a similar campaign would work with regard to trans ideology? Not against LGB education in schools, which is about sexual orientation, but an ideology which is anti-science and more akin to a religious doctrine.
How will lessons in human biology make sense to children if they have been indoctrinated into a belief in innate gender identity? That it has been decided (where? by whom? on what evidence?) that humans are the only mammals on the planet that are NOT sexually dimorphic.
Will biology teaching have to conform to the doctrine of innate gender identity?
Education Scotland needs to come up with a ton of properly funded, peer reviewed research to justify putting this ideological nonsense in classrooms. Can parents organise (I'm not a parent) and ask testing questions of those who want to put this in schools?

Lemon that lesson plan looks like a really clear way to teach the difference between sex and gender.

Am hoping the politicians will now get that lesson when writing policies.

I think this is the lesson plan for P1 and 2

It's first level so p2 up. It looks to be a good resource. Different authorities have different approaches to how we teach about pshd. It will be interesting to see whT guidence we are given when it's implemented in schools and at what stage we start to discuss it.

I think it’s not good at all

After we are born people start to see us and think about us as a boy or a girl even if they don’t know whether we have a vulva or a penis. This is when being a boy or a girl is called our gender.

Ok, so gender is stereotypes. Fine so far.

Your gender is what you decide. You might be a boy or a girl, or maybe you don’t like to decide that.

So gender is stereotypes, but I get to decide what my gender is, presumably based on these stereotypes? Ok.

Of course...girls and boys...can do [and feel and be] all these things if they choose.

So gender is stereotypes, but stereotypes are rubbish because boys and girls can do/be/feel however they want.

So how do I know if I’m a boy or girl, if being a boy is both based in stereotypes, but those stereotypes have also just been rubbished?

When a baby is born parents are told what sex their baby is. A doctor looks at the baby’s body and decides - if the baby has a vulva, they say the baby is a female/girl baby or if the baby has a penis and testicles, they say it is a male/boy baby.

This is great but no more is said about this. So when I’m deciding whether I’m a boy or a girl, where does this come in?

When people grow up, sometimes they decide to change their gender so that they are happier with who they are, this is called being transgender.

This sounds nice and harmless, if gender just means stereotypes and how others see you. But we all know being a transgender child inevitably involves medical intervention. How does this square with the above definitions of gender and being transgender?

LemonJello Yes, I don't this is clear at all. My analysis of gender is that it is an imposed hierarchy of sex stereotypes, with men at the top and women and the bottom. It is not innate and not an expression of anything.
We need to get rid of sex stereotypes and acknowledge people have different personalities, which isn't gender expression or whathaveyou. It's just having a personality.
Nowhere does it seem clear to me that they are saying sex is biology. We're mammals, we reproduce sexually as do all mammals, we are sexually dimorphic as are all mammals.
This is how babies are made!
The government believes gender identity is innate and present in everyone from aged 3 upwards. Told to me by senior civil servants when in a meeting about GRA consultation in Scotland. They also told me that the word 'woman' couldn't be defined as it was up to every individual to decide what it meant for them.
These are the people writing the policies (if they haven't farmed the task out to favoured lobby groups).
Self id, trans religion in schools - I'm not clear why this is being taken up so enthusiastically by elected members, civil servants, public sector generally. But it is.

Intersex is an umbrella term which can be used for people who are born with variations of sex characteristics which do not always fit societies perception of typically male or female bodies. Intersex is not the same as gender identity (our sense of self) or sexual orientation (who we are attracted to), but is about the physical body we are born with.

So sex is just 'societies' perception of typically male or female bodies'.

If this is taken FIRMLY from the approach of dealing with stereotypes and bullying, it might have the potential to be a positive areas of the curriculum.

But it would need to start out from the foremost from an anti homophobia stance, smashing and challenging stereotypes (eg using homophobic slurs to bully gender non conforming children) and really include a clear distinction between sexuality, sex and gender and gender stereotypes. then careful discussion about trans could occur.

My extreme worry is that the "born in the wrong body" shit is too strong in educational packs, (bar TGT of course) and many lgb(t++++zxcvb) books on the matter, as many of the EA areas are explored through stories and books within schools.

I saw a celebratory poster retweeted which said they would be tackling 'homophobia, biphobia and transphobia'. I wonder what they will do when the people screaming 'transphobic' are doing so in a homophobic way...

I was rather struck by the Guardian's coverage, which says that the ciriculuum is covering "lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender and intersex rights."

www.theguardian.com/education/2018/nov/09/scotland-first-country-approve-lgbti-school-lessons

I would be very interested to see how the programme covers "intersex rights." I wonder how many intersex people were consulted.