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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Trans age court case

55 replies

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 07/11/2018 14:16

www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/tinder-user-asks-court-change-13548546.amp

A single pensioner has launched a legal battle to change his age so he can go back to work and meet more women on Tinder.

He argues that if transgender people are legally allowed to change sex, he should be allowed to give himself a new birth date because doctors told him he has the body of a 45-year-old.

The judge said that he had some sympathy with Mr Ratelband, but the court said there would be practical problems in allowing people to change their birth date - as it would mean legally deleting part of their lives.

OP posts:
Micke · 07/11/2018 16:03

I can see how this would appeal to those with Christmas birthdays too - an ex-boyfriend was always very cross about the whole combined present thing, and I expect would leap at moving his birthday legally to the middle of August.

ErrolTheDragon · 07/11/2018 16:03

If you are non-binary age, does this mean you skip every year of your life that ends in a 1 or a 0?

No, but the simple solution to Mr Ratelband's problem is to identify himself using hex - that makes him 45. I mean, why is everyone so fixated on decimal, not everyone has 10 fingers.

BeyondVicious · 07/11/2018 16:19

Yy to Xmas birthdays!! Grin

GraceTheDisgrace · 07/11/2018 16:55

In my country (Greece) this was brought up during the Parliament debate about the trans stuff. My party said "if we let people self-ID age, then everyone will just self-ID as 68 and start collecting their pension immediately."

This fact is what will prevent transage from happening (since safeguarding is no longer a concern, apparently).

LikeDust · 07/11/2018 17:00

I can imagine all the late transitioners waiting for the outcome of this with bated breath so they can have their 'second puberty' as a 13 year old girl verified.

Ooh just think - they could go back to school and have instigate unwanted conversations about periods and bra sizes with the cis-age cis-girls!

Free the boner!

OlennasWimple · 07/11/2018 17:00

I have always had an innate feeling that I should in should be 26. In my head, I am 26. No-one can tell me that I dont' feel 26

I'll be getting my birth certificate changed to rectify this anomaly (each and every year, obv, because I will be staying 26 for ever)

CaptainBrickbeard · 07/11/2018 17:02

Can I identify as a pensioner and give up work please? I’d like especially to identify as having made a lot of pension contributions in the 35 years that I’m identifying out of so I can draw out a nice hefty amount of money to fund my retirement.

JellySlice · 07/11/2018 17:05

Why not, Micke? After all, the Queen does it. (Is Her Maj transage, then? If Noel decides to move vis birthday, does that make vim transmajestic?)

NothingOnTellyAgain · 07/11/2018 17:06

I think this has more merit conceptually than changing sex.

The idea of feeling a different age to the one you are is widespread and well understood.

Some people are "born old" ine way they are and some are always "young". Many people feel younger than they are - and having been younger there is actually some basis for this feeling ie we know what it feels like, we are not identifying as something we have never been.

Time passes obviously but how it feels is highly subjective - our perception of how time passes changes according to how much fun we are having, whether something is a new experience or one we have done lots of times, as we age our perception changes due to a variety of factors, and there's the way that different size animals perceive time differently and while we're all human some adults are twice the size of other ones.... Then there are things like menopause > do two women who are the same age but at different "stages" of life feel different in terms of their age? Maybe? And so on and so forth...

Then there is the fact that as this guy says, some people's bodies do age slower than others - due to luck, genes and how you live > this is measurable.

So this makes a LOT more sense than feeling like you are the opposite sex, comceptually.

Obviosuly it would never fly though as so many things in society are linked to age and it would be open to massive abuse with huge consequences.

While allowing men to say they're women is deemed consquences free (in a sexist society).

Of course people weren't allowed to ID into things that matter to men >> herediatary titles (primogeniture no girls thank you very much), getting pensions earlier before they were equalised (money) and so on...

SkullPointerException · 07/11/2018 17:11

I'm trans-12. Seeing as I have multiple degrees and a successful professional career to my name, I feel I should be entitled to an array of special prodigy awards and scholarships.

I mean, how many 12 year-old managers with an MBA do you know? I'm just very, very special!

GraceTheDisgrace · 07/11/2018 17:24

After all, scientists agree: time is a social construct.

www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/why-time-is-a-social-construct-164139110/

LikeDust · 07/11/2018 17:33

Reminds me of this thread:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3292854-Trans-Time-An-allegory-for-this-debate

Emma765 · 07/11/2018 18:01

I've just read this, was so convinced it was a wind up 🤣

@Captainbrickbeard there was that man who identified as a woman in order to qualify for his pension Grin

WhereYouLeftIt · 07/11/2018 19:02

"The judge said that he had some sympathy with Mr Ratelband as people could now change their gender which would once have been unthinkable.

But the court said there would be practical problems in allowing people to change their birth date and it would mean legally deleting part of their lives."

Practical problems. Deleting part of their lives. Really no difference then between transgender and transage?

I think this could be very very interesting. Creating the legal fiction of being the opposite sex has opened a can of worms, hasn't it Grin? I don't see how this judge can knock Ratelband back without creating a precedent that the Nederlands GC could ask to be applied to gender too.

I await developments!

WhereYouLeftIt · 07/11/2018 19:07

Hmm. Googled him. Interesting.

www.ratelband.nl/?page_id=59&lang=en

AornisHades · 07/11/2018 19:17

Good news for any under 18 who wants a drink. Get yourself declared 18 and off you go to the Red Lion for a pint.

JellySlice · 07/11/2018 23:18

*I think this has more merit conceptually than changing sex.

The idea of feeling a different age to the one you are is widespread and well understood.*
*...
*
So this makes a LOT more sense than feeling like you are the opposite sex, comceptually.

No it doesn't. It's equally rubbish. What a person 'feels' or thinks does not change material reality.

hipsterfun · 08/11/2018 00:01

No, but the simple solution to Mr Ratelband's problem is to identify himself using hex - that makes him 45. I mean, why is everyone so fixated on decimal, not everyone has 10 fingers.

Ah, age-reassignment surgery! Simple!

Turph · 08/11/2018 00:10

If you dye your hair grey does that make you trans-aged?
If you wear a baseball cap in your dotage?
What about if you really like beige? Or hotpants? If you wear beige hotpants are you age non-binary?

NothingOnTellyAgain · 08/11/2018 08:11

No it's not equally rubbish. It makes a lot more sense conceptually.

Would be interested in why you disagree. If you could get into some of the points about perception of time passing etc that would be great.

I find it a really interesting area.

Beamur · 08/11/2018 08:30

Given lots of women in the UK are experiencing poverty due to the change in the age you can claim pension, if this became a thing, could they ID a couple of years older to get it?
Somehow I doubt the Governments commitment to self identity wouldn't extend to something that would cost the Treasury money.

BeyondVicious · 08/11/2018 09:09

Do you reckon you could get a facelift on the nhs as "age reassignment surgery"? Asking for a friend Grin

JellySlice · 08/11/2018 11:07

Personal perception does not affect material reality.

Even personal physical change - a material reality - dies not affect the material reality of the world around you.

I had an early menopause. Does that mean I am 10y older than I really am?

Yesterday I wore my dd's shoes. Does that make me 15?

I certainly do not feel 52. In my head I'm late 30s, in the condition of my body I'm pushing 60. Doesn't change the incontrovertible fact that I am 52.

Vixxxy · 08/11/2018 11:52

I genuinely feel like 18. I know that thats how I feel, as I have been 18 before and feel the same person inside as I did then! My body disagrees (and seems to think its 80), however 'feeling' younger makes a lot more sense than 'feeling' like something you have never actually been.

Vvmevvme · 08/11/2018 12:10

Was just coming on to post this.

I hope he wins to show the unutterable lunacy of this entire thing. He’s a genius.