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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Susie Green

128 replies

SlowlyShrinking · 06/11/2018 17:51

Is the implication that she supports this? I suppose I shouldn’t be surprised, but fucking hell!!

Susie Green
OP posts:
ThePrincipal · 07/11/2018 16:41

Who can pull the plug?

Mrskeats · 07/11/2018 16:44

Haven’t rtft but that post is so ridiculous. So called CIS procedures do not involve chopping healthy parts off young adults,
What happened to ‘first do no harm’? Children cannot legally drive, vote, get married etc for a reason but they should be allowed to sterilise themselves?? Madness

MrGHardy · 07/11/2018 18:28

Since my earlier message was deleted I will repeat it, because it's true.

Susie Green is one of the most abhorrent people to be involved in this discussion right now. A country made something illegal in response to her. Enough said.

PyeWackets · 07/11/2018 18:43

We are not going to accidentally make someone trans, even if we give them hormones...being trans is not a negative outcome. Johanna Olson-Kennedy Lets be less concerned about certainty and more concerned about improving the quality of people’s lives

Tweeted on November the 4th.

Less concerned about certainty???? We are talking about children's lives here. Should we not be really bloody certain before we start medicating healthy children???

RedToothBrush · 07/11/2018 18:56

Medicating anyone unnecessarily is a negative outcome. Not least because drugs have side effects.

Being trans has got fuck all to do with that.

Mrskeats · 07/11/2018 19:04

The drugs were never designed for this purpose so noone knows the long term effects.

R0wantrees · 07/11/2018 19:21

the side effects of taking testosterone are well known within the context of steroid abuse:

www.drugabuse.gov/publications/research-reports/steroids-other-appearance-performance-enhancing-drugs-apeds/what-are-different-types-apeds

Mrskeats · 07/11/2018 19:30

True yes. I meant Lupron etc which trans people are using in America.

R0wantrees · 07/11/2018 19:42

Increasing amounts of information being publicised about side effects of lupron:

this from last week:
Lupron: 'Georgia woman says controversial drug led to series of health problems'
Oct 29 2018

"A Georgia woman blames a controversial drug for ruining her life and the lives of thousands of other women. Her lawsuit claims several pharmaceutical companies failed to warn about the drug's crippling side effects.

The drug Lupron was originally approved for prostate cancer, but for the last 20 years women have taken it to relieve pelvic pain.

The Georgia woman’s case is being watched closely by patients both male and female who now

Terry Paulsen is not yet 60 years old, but she looks closer to 80 years old.

“How do you feel right now?” Channel 2’s consumer investigator Jim Strickland asked Paulsen.

“My body is on fire. My joints have arthritis everywhere,” Paulsen answered."

“Has this been going on for 14 years?” asked Strickland. “Since I got Lupron in 2004, we did not know this was coming,” replied Paulsen.

Lupron is an injection. It stops the production of sex hormones. Paulsen had only two shots to treat her endometriosis, painful lesions of uterine-like tissue that feed on estrogen.

“And this drug needs to have a black box warning on it, because I know what it did to me,” said Paulsen. At the time, the Lupron label cautioned about "... a loss in bone density. But for a period of up to six months, this bone loss should not be clinically significant.”

The current label drops that claim.

“Her immune system began to attack her own bones. She got osteopenia and osteoporosis and now she’s got terrible osteoporosis,” said Dr. Alan Levin, he is an immunologist with 50 years of experience, including consulting with the Food and Drug Administration. Levin has a second career. He’s Paulsen’s lawyer."(continues)

www.wsbtv.com/news/local/georgia-woman-says-drug-used-to-treat-endometriosis-led-to-series-of-health-problems/859263892

R0wantrees · 07/11/2018 19:43

'Drug used to halt puberty in children may cause lasting health problems'
By CHRISTINA JEWETT — KAISER HEALTH NEWS
FEBRUARY 2017
(extract)
"For years, Sharissa Derricott, 30, had no idea why her body seemed to be failing. At 21, a surgeon replaced her deteriorated jaw joint. She’s been diagnosed with degenerative disc disease and fibromyalgia, a chronic pain condition. Her teeth are shedding enamel and cracking.

None of it made sense to her until she discovered a community of women online who describe similar symptoms and have one thing in common: All had taken a drug called Lupron.

Thousands of parents chose to inject their daughters with the drug, which was approved to shut down puberty in young girls but also is commonly used off-label to help short kids grow taller.

The drug’s pediatric version comes with few warnings about long-term side effects. It is also used in adults to fight prostate cancer or relieve uterine pain and the Food and Drug Administration has warnings on the drug’s adult labels about a variety of side effects.

More than 10,000 adverse event reports filed with the FDA reflect the experiences of women who’ve taken Lupron. The reports describe everything from brittle bones to faulty joints.

In interviews and in online forums, women who took the drug as young girls or initiated a daughter’s treatment described harsh side effects that have been well-documented in adults.

Women who used Lupron a decade or more ago to delay puberty or grow taller described the short-term side effects listed on the pediatric label: pain at the injection site, mood swings, and headaches. Yet they also described conditions that usually affect people much later in life. A 20-year-old from South Carolina was diagnosed with osteopenia, a thinning of the bones, while a 25-year-old from Pennsylvania has osteoporosis and a cracked spine. A 26-year-old in Massachusetts needed a total hip replacement. A 25-year-old in Wisconsin, like Derricott, has chronic pain and degenerative disc disease.

“It just feels like I’m being punished for basically being experimented on when I was a child,” said Derricott, of Lawton, Okla. “I’d hate for a child to be put on Lupron, get to my age and go through the things I have been through.” (continues)

www.statnews.com/2017/02/02/lupron-puberty-children-health-problems/

Mrskeats · 07/11/2018 20:00

It’s all so shocking.
I can’t really believe it’s happening

Mrskeats · 07/11/2018 20:03

Does anyone know the name of the drug that’s used here?

SlowlyShrinking · 07/11/2018 20:08

There’s also a poster on here who took a drug that works in the same way as lupron, as an adult, and has been left with terrible psychological and physical problems (im sorry I can’t remember her name)
There are parents who’re being advised to give these to their children. I know some people might say ‘well they should research before giving consent’ but really, they should be able to trust support groups and doctors to advise them. But it seems that certain drs and certain support groups can’t really be trusted to give the full information and full risks.

OP posts:
OldCrone · 07/11/2018 20:08

I believe this is the drug used in the UK.
bnf.nice.org.uk/drug/triptorelin.html

Butterymuffin · 07/11/2018 20:22

In 10-20 years from now there will be an avalanche of court cases over kids being given drugs like this without anywhere near the kind of forethought and due diligence that was needed.

Mrskeats · 07/11/2018 21:04

Thanks old
Completely agree buttery

Bowlofbabelfish · 07/11/2018 21:12

Triptorelin is in the same class as Lupron - it will be expected to have pretty much the same safety profile.

I and others have talked about it on various threads if you search. The prescribing info/package insert is also freely available online.

The poster who took these drugs and suffered various effects is tammyswansontwo. she writes eloquently about her experiences- and I’ve never seen anyone who has been pushing these drugs as harmless answer her questions or respond to her. Funny that...

I’m not a medic, but I am a scientist with a decent grasp on how these things work. My personal stance is that I’d not allow a child of mine to take these drugs even for precocious puberty which is what they’re licensed for, without there being absolutely no alternative. Even then I’d be reluctant.

They are not harmless, they have multi system effects and in my opinion those effects are not clear enough especially over longer timescales. Some of them seem to take a decade or two to manifest.

These are not benign drugs. They should not be being used in physically healthy children, and I’m appalled that ethics committees are allowing this.

JillyArmeeen · 07/11/2018 21:28

That nice page doesn't mention using triptorelin for precocious puberty.
Is that what 'off label' means?
But they are licensed for use in precocious puberty?
Apologies if I'm being thick, just want to have it clear in my head.

Mrskeats · 07/11/2018 21:37

Yes Jilly that's exactly what it means.

JillyArmeeen · 07/11/2018 21:47

Thanks, so what does licensed for use mean?
I guessing off label means the makers are not intending it to be used for that, so there's no dosage instructions or side effects listed for that use.
Is someone else licensing it to be used for precocious puberty? Who does that? How do they know which doses to give?
Of course even if it is licensed for use in precocious puberty, I'm guessing the license makes it legal/ethical, how is it legal or ethical to give it off label to kids who are not going through a precocious puberty?

Mrskeats · 07/11/2018 21:55

Doctors can chose to prescribe off label even if a drug is not really intended for their patient’s issue.
My dh works in medical publishing so talks to doctors about new drugs.

Bowlofbabelfish · 08/11/2018 02:13

Triptorelin is licenced in the uk for:

Various types and treatment modes of prostate cancer
Endometriosis
CPP - central precocious puberty in children.

It is also being investigated for use in hormone responsive breast cancer. I’m not sure if that has been approved yet or not.

It is NOT approved for use in healthy children who are questioning their gender

. A drug being used off label isn’t in itself a bad thing - many drugs are. However, they tend to be used like that when there’s a long history of safe/effective use. The prescribing physician is responsible for everything they prescribe and this has legal ramifications. A doctor prescribing something that’s been used to treat a condition for twenty years but has never actually been licenced is not going to get sued. One using a drug that’s got awful side effects and no safety record at all - well they might be.

Groups have been lobbying for these drugs to be used as the routine treatment of choice . By doing that and by creating this ‘normalisation’ they create a situation where Suing is less likely to succeed.

BettyDuMonde · 08/11/2018 02:16

Here’s a drug distribution company promoting it for both prostrate cancer AND stopping precocious puberty in girls (obviously both aren’t occurring in the same patient)!

www.lgmpharma.com/blog/triptorelin-acetate-is-effective-on-and-off-label/

It’s also used to chemically castrate sex offenders (so that’ll be why trans teens on blockers aren’t developing sexual interests and urges equivalent to their non medicated peers):

www.forensicnetwork.scot.nhs.uk/documents/medication%20for%20sex%20offenders%20protocol.pdf

Bowlofbabelfish · 08/11/2018 02:24

To be marketed for a condition a drug needs to show the regulators (mhra in uk, fda in America) tgatcthe drug is safe and effective. That’s normally done by clinical trials - which can cost upwards of a billion dollars to run.
Only when approved can a drug be marketed for that indication. The data obtained by clinical trials is stuff like basic safety and pharmacokinetics (how a drug is absorbed, processed and excreted by the body) as well as side effects, efficacy and disease. So a typical phase three trial (in real patients) would be something like ‘TRIALNAME’ (usually a strained acronym) - a double blind, randomised trial to investigate the safety ad efficacy of two doses of DRUGNAME in advanced Parkinson’s disease.’

However, your doctor can in theory prescribe whatever for whatever. But they are responsible for it.

2BorNot2Bvocal · 08/11/2018 08:12

This goes way beyond trans health. We need to be able to have conversations about the importance of safeguarding frameworks in medicine and the importance of freedom from political influence in science, research and medicine.

Agree with this & RedTooth's other posts.

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