Josie and Poppy video. Longing for a Magdalen style take-down

[SignMeUp]

70 year old and 11 year old transgender conversation. Both lovely people I'm sure. It's heartbreaking watching the younger fucking validating the elder with kindness, while they are literally wring their hands and smiling for the camera.
The part that infuriates me: Old Josie says "Who knows what miracle technology can bring. Maybe one day it will be possible for you to have your own baby. I always think that's a possibility. That's what I dream for."
Young Poppy, no doubt affirmed into sterilization soon, just nods,
Perhaps you'll get one of the uteri that transmen don't want...

A friend of mine posts this and other friends like it. RRRRRR

I hate this narrative that we’re not allowed to question, everything is romanticized with slo-mo and music. Apparently people that don’t accept Josie who transitioned at 60 and is now 70 as a “real woman” are “horrible” “Because I’m a real woman and you’re a real girl aren’t you Poppy?” so what does that make the 50% of the population born with vaginas and XX chromosomes? They are forcing onto us a redefinition of ourselves which if we don’t accept makes us “horrible”.

I also thought it was pretty inappropriate for a grown adult to be describing the gender surgery they had had in graphic terms to an 11 year old.

It just feels it is so manipulative to take an unquestioning pre-pubescent child and use that child as a way to gain confirmation of the choices of an adult that lived for 60 years, I am assuming until 2008, before transitioning. Josie said they had a fulfilling academic career and possibly marriage and children but many, many decades of free choice which Poppy will NOT have if the medical route is taken. Their life stories are not comparable in my book. Why did Josie wait until 60? If they truly felt they were a woman they could’ve transitioned long before that.

You know that we are not allowed to make an equivalent video critiquing this narrative without it being screamed down by TRAs. Poppy and other children should not be publicized because it’s yet another way that social pressure can prevent them from feeling free to question as they grow. They are being used as propaganda. Where are all the 25, 35 and 45 year olds who have transitioned successfully and unsuccessfully? They don’t want people with a “messy” narrative, they simplify it and use children so that critiquing makes people “horrible”.

I also thought it was pretty inappropriate for a grown adult to be describing the gender surgery they had had in graphic terms to an 11 year old.

I thought that as well. It was distasteful - as if the older person only saw the child as another trans person and not a child. It was selfish and self-cantered.

It reads as grooming to me.

It reads as grooming to me.

Likewise.

You know that we are not allowed to make an equivalent video critiquing this narrative without it being screamed down by TRAs. Poppy and other children should not be publicized because it’s yet another way that social pressure can prevent them from feeling free to question as they grow. They are being used as propaganda

A friend was recently postpartum and coping with another young child when a member of a door-knocking faith knocked at her door, complete with a child in a pushchair and a baby, as well as a young child holding the door-knocker's hand. The hand-holding child rattled off a speech - all as an obvious emotional-manipulation proxy.

My friend freaked. It was bucketing down with rain and she unleashed her wrath on the woman for taking the children round in those conditions. She wanted the children to come inside and dry while they contacted someone to take them home.

The woman trailed away with the bedraggled children. My friend really wanted to unload on her about how in later life there was a good chance that the children would understand just how she had used them and it wouldn't end well.

But, that wouldn't have been kind - and it would possibly have landed her with a reputation as a religious bigot rather than someone genuinely concerned for the welfare of those children.

I remember one time when DS was three. We were in town and he was in the pushchair. A woman deftly handed him a balloon with an anti abortion slogan on it. It was so busy I didn’t even notice until the bloody thing popped up in front of my face. I was furious. I also had to bribe DS with sweets to get the bloody thing off him.

Honestly, if people can’t push their cause without using kids then they really need to have a word with themselves. Vile manipulative cowards.

How is it that people get all up in arms if sport is politicised in any way, but innocent kids are fair game?

Who makes these videos and puts an 11 year old in the spotlight like this?

Poppy seems very sweet and happy but I found this really disturbing. Saying to Poppy that they may be able to have a baby is cruel and it will ultimately be very isolating for Poppy if everyone is 'horrible' that doesn't accept she is a 'real woman'.

If Josie truly believes the 'trans' pathway (puberty blockers, hormones, potential surgery) is so legitimate then why not be happy in your 'trans' identity? I don't understand why the focus is always on being a 'real' woman, I don't think it's healthy for young trans people to focus on. You can't change your chromosomes and you can't change your history. If older trans people really cared about young trans people then they would focus on the positive of being trans.

When Josie mentions the botched surgery that was later corrected, you can see the youngster squirm. I wonder how much editing was done. So inappropriate. Thanks for pointing out the grooming aspect. True!

Who makes these videos and puts an 11 year old in the spotlight like this?

Owl and Fox were behind this one. It's very contrived and the pushing on the swing is a bit

Poppy seems to be being wheeled out a lot at the moment, she was on Lorraine or one of those programmes the other week wasn't she? Are they trying to make her the UK Jazz Jennings? I totally agree that putting her in the spotlight like this is so irresponsible, what if she changes her mind and feels like she can't because she has become a trans poster girl? I wonder what the plan is for Poppy's puberty (god there is a sentence I dont really want to type, but surely Poppy won't be put on cross sex hormones early on, it's illegal isn't it? What about blockers?)

I can see why people would be convinced by this on a superficial level until it got to the part about 'real women'. The anger in Josie was quite obvious and probably stemmed from a recognition of not actually being a 'real woman', despite surgery.

The comments on this! (on YouTube, twitter, FB) all stunning, lovely etc

I can see it's very hard to criticise this piece of propaganda without seeming like attacking a sweet child and vulnerable old dear.

But can't people see how disturbing this is?!? Josie talking about genital surgery with an 11 year old, promising maybe one day it will be possible for you to have your own baby. And Poppy saying "If I hadn’t transitioned, I wouldn’t be happy in my own body. And I wouldn’t be confident. I’d just be depressed and I wouldn’t want to be around anyone or anything.”.... How can any 11 year old know this. It sounds so coached.

A pensioner talking about their disfigured genitals to a child?

Creepy as fuck.

I... am... eleven... and... not... speaking... from... a... memorised... script... honest!...

Poppy was on Victoria Derbyshire a few weeks ago talking about the mermaids ball and stating her intentiom to take hormones..
Josie telling poppy she might have her own children.
Why? If on blockers already she wont be able to.
Its all just smoke and mirrors so that people watching don't question the fact these kids are being sterilised.
These kids are being sterilised.
And people are still lining up to clap and cheer, kids being sterilised.
The whole thing is astounding to me.
When the fuck did sterilising children become an OK thing to do?

I hate the kids being sterilised. It makes me feel sick and it’s true. It’s actually happening. For a long time I wanted to be a boy thank fuck I wasn’t young in this day and age. I wouldn’t have my two beautiful girls or be thinking of having a much wanted third. To lie to kids and tell them they may be able to have their own is disgusting. Why should a man get a uterus that could go to a woman who has had to deal with being infertile, not by choice for many years. If transplantation does become a thing, if women aren’t prioritised over the men I will be fuming and will never donate my own if in the position to do so. If trans is so great then just be happy being trans fs.

TBH I’m struggling with this. Yes it’s awkward and a tad creepy. But in all honesty I don’t feel comfortable with a “takedown” of a video that has a child as a main participant.

I feel we need to remember kids are the victims here. Regardless of what “media” they are promoted in.

Dana - I know what you mean.

However, it seems to me that Poppy is a very kind, sweet sort of child, a ‘people pleaser’ in fact.

I hope someone is looking out for Poppy’s well-being, someone who isn’t completely in thrall to Mermaids.

This is so sad and manipulative. A prepubescent boy can look very female. It doesn't take anything for some to pass. Poppy at 20 or 30 or 40 is going to look far far far less female. I can't think anyone here would do anything other than wish Poppy peace and a good life but any 'trans' child who has been affirmed in this way is going to face a complex future. I want to shake Poppy's parents and say fgs don't medicate your child.