Mayor Anderson again

[Juells]

This has nothing to do with feminism, but I found it strange and a bit scary.

uk.yahoo.com/news/liverpool-makes-stand-runs-far-183340268.html

"I want it to be peaceful, but I want people to be out on the streets saying they are not welcome in our city,” Anderson told the Liverpool Echo prior to the march. “Some people on Twitter have said to me: ‘What about free speech?’ Well that comes with a responsibility not to espouse hate.”

Is it normal for mayors to call people out to the streets for counter demonstrations?

Fascists should be fucking silenced.

Define Fascist.

Is your definition of facist correct or somebody else's?

Is it your responsibility to do the silencing or somebody else's?

Define 'silence'.

There are laws about freedom of assembly, freedom of speech and hate speech in the UK. If we ignore legal process who is to say that the next time somebody is 'silenced' it won't be you?

You should absolutely challenge people - but you can do that because your right to freedom of speech and freedom of assembly is protected.

Define fascist

Far right groups like Frontline Patriots.

Define silence

Not allowing them to walk freely along our streets spouting their evil views.

What if somebody thinks your views are evil? Are they allowed to ignore the law to silence you?

Nobody gives a shit about my views because I am not a fascist merrymouse.

Nobody gives a shit about my views because I am not a fascist

Presumably the fascists who organised the demonstration care about opposing views, and being fascists would very much like to silence them. What would have happened if they were less pathetic and had brought along reinforcements?

According to the Mayor freedom of speech isn't a matter of law, it's a matter of numbers.

For god’s sake merrymouse really nobody gives a shit and if the fascists care then good. They don’t have the right to espouse their bile without right thinking people counter demonstrating. I k ow you have beef with Joe but there are plenty of other things about him that are more worrying than him tweeting about fascists coming to Liverpool.

Manchester’s response to the recent EDL march gave me a moment of transnorthern pride:

metro.co.uk/2018/10/20/tiny-edl-protest-is-swamped-by-police-during-far-right-march-through-manchester-8059140/

Ignoring them until they go away is far more effective!

Liverpool is very different to Manchester.

I'm not sure anyone but a fellow Scouse or Manc will understand that distinction

One of my DBs lives in Aylesbury. When the BNP marched there the local authority put out a statement that the march was going ahead but suggesting that anyone who witnessed the march turn their backs on it to signify their rejection of the BNP's message. A far better option.

GC women are constantly accused of being fascists and Nazis. It's one of the ways we're silenced.

I think counter demos against fascists are a proud tradition, from Cable Street in the 30s onwards. I don't see the issue at all.

That may work in Aylesbury Prawn but try telling a load of scousers to turn their backs to a fascist march. You would get absolutely nowhere

I think counter demos against fascists are a proud tradition, from Cable Street in the 30s onwards. I don't see the issue at all.

Can you not see a difference between people counter-demonstrating, and the mayor of a city telling people to get out there on the streets?

They don’t have the right to espouse their bile without right thinking people counter demonstrating

Absolutely.

But I'm afraid I very much give a shit about freedom of speech at a time when the President of the United States is telling his supporters that the press is the enemy of the people and that political opponents are evil, and when women are being prevented from gathering to talk about issues that affect women because disagreement is framed as hate.

Can you not see the difference between tweeting in support of a counter demonstration and advocating the idea that it is fine for anyone to ignore the law and take it upon themselves to suppress somebody else's freedom of speech as long as they judge it to 'espouse hate'?

He could simply have said that a counter demonstration does not restrict anyone else's freedom of speech.

I really believe that normal rules don’t apply when it comes to free speech and fascism.

Mayors are not apolitical. Why shouldn't they call for people to march and demonstrate (legally and peacefully) for or against the political causes fro which they stand.

I'd understand not liking it if they were supposed to be politically neutral figureheads for the city, but that simply isn't the case. They are political figures.

Normal rules always apply.

It's the difference between living in a working democracy and a state run by a dictator. If you want to change the laws on freedom of speech/right to assembly/hate speech, lobby your MP.

Clearly you are free to believe that you don't live in a working democracy, but that is a bit of an odd line for the Mayor of Liverpool to take.

They really don’t merrymouse. There is a world of difference between protests and fascist protests.

They really don’t merrymouse.

They really do. It's a pretty big part of not being fascist.

Struggling to see the problem with a counter demonstration against fascists.

Given who we are talking about I think it’s niave to defend his call for a counter demonstration as a defence of democracy against fascism when we know full well he’d do the same if it was Juilie Bindel or Germaine Greer getting off that train.

This wasn’t a spontaneous grassroots demonstration; it was the most powerful political figure in the city calling out a mob.

The most unbelievable thing about this is that both sides could find a fucking train on a Saturday.

There has been none stopping at my station (I live between Liverpool and Manchester) on a Saturday since August and I’ve gone from sympathy for the strike action to wanting the entire network dismantled.

I really believe that normal rules don’t apply when it comes to free speech and fascism.

That’s precisely when the rules do matter.

If you only support free speech when it’s something that you agree with, that’s not a rule, it’s special pleading.