A question about Iran and transwomen

[SuperLambBananas]

So was just thinking about the affect of self ID and transwomen in women's spaces, particularly from the view of Muslim women.

We know in Iran they force gay men to transition into "heterosexual women" to avoid the death penalty for being homosexual. But how does this work in a Muslim country with strict sex segregation?

I know women generally don't have much space in public life so I don't mean in loos, changing rooms etc. But I mean in women's houses, would a Muslim woman in Iran allowed to be, for instance, home alone and uncovered with an unrelated trans woman?

I guess pre-op/post up is a big part of this...and maybe pre-op wouldn't be considered a woman but post op would?

Does anybody know the country/laws well?

sorry this did have paragraphs when I wrote it!

It's fine OP! I see paragraphs. Yes I am interested in your question too.

I'm interested in this too. Do they go on to marry biological men? Surely not, when producing heirs is such an important thing within the culture. But by the same token, two trans-women couldn't be together, as they would be seen as a "lesbian couple" which I presume is also forbidden.

Afaik Iran only accept post op as transwomen, anything less is a man in their eyes. Some still wouldn't accept they are women but there is obviously a religious doctrine that allows GRS, that drives everything in those countries.

Iran accepts trans, but not self ID. It does so as part of the medical treatment of GID. The policy is very accepting, and people live fully in the identity they are transitioning to. It is very much seen as a medical issue for which there is a medical cure (surgery and hormones) and there is significant (mandatory) psych assessment as part of the medical 'cure'

If you are in Iran, then your gender would be recognised according to Iranian law (so no self-ID for Iranian on joint Iranian/anywhere else). I don't know what would happen to foreigners - they would probably have to live fully according to their passport identity, and could of course be imprisoned or deported if considered undesirable (whether that is conduct related to sex or is anything else considered unacceptable or criminal there).

I remember reading in the newspaper quite a few years ago that about half the Iranian women's football team is post-op - surely when competing internationally they're only provided one changing room so they do share?

This other article seems quite clear that it is only post op that's recognised. I should think that as the birth certificate is changed they can get married if they wish.

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/irans-treatment-of-trans-citizens-a-double-edgeduss_5819f53de4b0cb89fdff2a89

It's quite a long process, and the final confirmation comes at the end of it. But people transitg are legally living in the sex they are transitioning to (under legal and medical supervision) for a considerable period. There is a court in Tehran which specifically deals with this.

You can't really draw good parallel with the system working there and the Western terms and concepts, because the society and its legal system are just so different,

But the short answer is trans is OK, but very much seen from the POV of it being as a medical issue to be cured

Thanks all, partic @moggy

How do you know that Iran does this? Where are the links to Iranian newspapers/articles or are you just repeating what you have been led to believe? When I get time I might just ask some Iranian friends whether this is true or more propaganda BS

qz.com/889548/everyone-treated-me-like-a-saint-in-iran-theres-only-one-way-to-survive-as-a-transgender-person/

please read up on the treatment of trans people in Iran and not just trans woman also the treatment of other lgbt people and why the so called exceptance of trans in Iran. before starting to comment on these issues

You didn’t read the article did you Bespin?

I was unaware of this. Thank you OP

Living elsewhere in the Gulf, I'd say Iran are not typical of the region in terms of their attitude towards gender reassignment.

But I mean in women's houses, would a Muslim woman in Iran allowed to be, for instance, home alone and uncovered with an unrelated trans woman?

Iran is an odd place, if you are in your own home and female you may well be wearing a mini skirt and have your hair uncovered. YOu have to cover up to answer the door but once your friends are inside you do not have to cover.

As for marriage, a little known quirk of many Muslim cultues (I think it's more cultural than religeous) is the concept of a 'temporary marriage', this can last a day or for years.

For a trans woman it can, sadly, be a source of income. Usually after a temporary marriage a woman cannot have another temporary marriage for a month so that if she becomes pregnant then she knows which man is the father.

Trans women cannot get pregnant so they can have several marriages a day.

There was a on this a few years ago: Ali Hamedani, BBC World service reporter, visits Turkey to meet LGBT exiles who have fled Iran in fear of being forced to change gender