No women's toilets in uni building

[ItsAllGoingToBeFine]

Just went to use the toilets in one of the fancy newer buildings at uni.

Was deeply confused that they had men's / unisex / disabled but no women's toilets (I checked the unisex toilets were two cubicles (open at top and bottom) in an enclosed room with sinks outside the cubicles). Then I went to the toilet elsewhere.

This is the first time I have been directly affected by this bullshit so was angry enough have fired off a confused email to (I hope) the right people.

I'll let you know what they say.

I think language matters and that both 'unisex' and 'gender neutral' are euphemisms.

I work at a university where all the toilets are unisex and non have floor to ceiling walls. I don't think it's a transgender thing though as they have always been like that.

I think language matters and that both 'unisex' and 'gender neutral' are euphemisms.

I agree.

If we want to ensure that everyone understands that what we’re talking about here is mixed sex, organisations that provide these facilities need to be honest about it.

And I think the more people realise what that means, the better the outcome for women and girls.

When removing rights and facilities from women I have noticed weasel words like unisex or gender neutral are always used.😡

No. What is meant is mixed sex. FFS!

Sex is a protected characteristic. We must not allow our female spaces to be erased.

"Mixed sex" is a much more informative term than "unisex". Especially in a university (mixed-versity?) where there will be many people with a non-English language as their mother tongue.

And yes, like you onedayiwillmissthis I don't think it's accidental that institutions often shy away from using the clearer term.

If the loos were clean and empty why didn't you just use them? Does it matter in the moment what sign is on the door?

Its not Sunderland uni, they have more sense!

If the loos were clean and empty why didn't you just use them? Does it matter in the moment what sign is on the door

Chances were they were not clean - I've never used unisex (mixed-sex) toilets that were clean and just because they are empty when one goes in ... and yes, I have been perved on in a changing space before ...

A government department I visit regularly has recently changed both the men's and women's toilets in its waiting room to gender neutral. Both have two cubicles with doors with gaps at the top and bottom. There are still some single sex toilets once you're inside the building (though many there have become gender neutral too), but that's not much good if you're waiting to be let in for a meeting.

The receptionist said the change hasn't gone down well... I'm intrigued to see whether they'll be quietly changed back.

I'm using the term 'gender neutral' because that's what the signs now say. Completely agree with others that this is a euphemism, and they should be called 'mixed sex'.

Independent article 2 September 2018 :
'UNISEX CHANGING ROOMS PUT WOMEN AT DANGER OF SEXUAL ASSAULT, DATA REVEALS'
(extract)
"The vast majority of reported sexual assaults at public swimming pools in the UK take place in unisex changing rooms, new statistics reveal.

The data, obtained through a Freedom of Information request by the Sunday Times, suggests that unisex changing rooms are more dangerous for women and girls than single-sex facilities.

Just under 90 per cent of complaints regarding changing room sexual assaults, voyeurism and harassment are about incidents in unisex facilities.

Unisex toilets at London primary school spark outrage among parents
What’s more, two thirds of all sexual attacks at leisure centres and public swimming pools take place in unisex changing rooms.

Of 134 complaints over 2017-2018, 120 reported incidents took place in gender-neutral changing rooms and just 14 were in single-sex changing areas.

In a further 46 cases, sexual assault allegations were made about attacks in other areas such as in the pool, in a sports hall or corridors.

Unisex facilities account for less than half the changing areas across the UK, but the number is on the rise - doing away with separate male and female changing rooms and toilets is seen as a way to cut staff costs and better cater for transgender people.

“These figures show that women and girls are more vulnerable in mixed changing rooms and there is a danger these places are becoming a magnet for sexual offenders,” says David Davies, MP for Monmouth." (continues)

www.independent.co.uk/life-style/women/sexual-assault-unisex-changing-rooms-sunday-times-women-risk-a8519086.html

November 2016

'Man who secretly filmed female students in toilets at University of East Anglia in Norwich to be sentenced today'
(extract)
"A man who secretly filmed women undressing, showering and going to the toilet at a university is due to be sentenced.
Norwich Magistrates Court. Picture: DENISE BRADLEY
A man who secretly filmed women undressing, showering and going to the toilet at a university is due to be sentenced.
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Luke Mallaband, 22, placed recording equipment at locations around the University of East Anglia (UEA) in Norwich, including at student accommodation and within the library toilets.

Mallaband, formerly of Norwich and now of Yew Tree Road, Walsall, admitted six voyeurism offences at an earlier hearing at Norwich Magistrates’ Court.

The offending happened between 2013 and February 2016.

He is due to be sentenced at Norwich Magistrates’ Court this afternoon.

At last month’s hearing Norwich Magistrates’ Court heard the filming of students at the UEA, and other locations, had been “going on for a number of years”.

Josephine Jones, prosecuting, said a woman using a gender neutral toilet in the UEA library noticed a “white plastic bag on the floor which appeared to have a hole in one corner”.

She had noticed the bag a few days before and opened it to discover a box which also had a hole in it.

“Inside the box she found an iPhone 6 which was recording.”

She went to the helpdesk at the UEA and reported it. Mallaband also went to the desk and told a member of staff he would delete what had been recorded.

Following the incident, on

January 19 this year, a formal complaint was made and police were informed.

Mallaband, formerly of Wycliffe Road, Norwich, was arrested and a number of items, including laptop and mobile phone, were seized.

They were examined by police and the phone was found to have video dating back to October last year which included footage of a woman in the shower at a property in Norwich.

In total 38 videos had been recorded at various locations, including toilets at the UEA, a bathroom and also at Mary Chapman Court student accommodation at UEA." (continues)

www.edp24.co.uk/news/man-who-secretly-filmed-female-students-in-toilets-at-university-of-east-anglia-in-norwich-to-be-sentenced-today-1-4790075

If the loos were clean and empty why didn't you just use them? Does it matter in the moment what sign is on the door?

QuestionableMouse because, as others have said, the likelihood is that they won't be clean, and because if you are a woman you are at much, much greater risk of being assaulted in a mixed-sex facility than you are a single-sex one. Just because it looks empty when you arrive doesn't mean it will stay empty when you are in there.

If the cubicles are open top and bottom in the mixed sex bathroom they are in breach of regulations.

The kids science museum I went to earlier in the year has the same on the top level - they're all single cubicles with sink off a corridor, but there's mens, accessible, and men/women (both little bods on the signs).

When I was there and they were all occupied I just went in the mens one with my kid - it was absolutely identical (and the country has self-id, so it's perfectly fine)

When I was at university the loos in my accommodation were gender neutral...not to be trendy but because it was a men's college that hadn't thought to change anything when they admitted women a few years before.
One day I accidentally walked in on a bloke who hadn't locked the door. It didn't bother me. I have never been particularly prudish.
It did, however, bother him. He followed me back to my room and wrote 'Dyke!' all over my door.

I think what is required here, and in similar situations, is a little pragmatic realism.
Buy yourself some overalls, pop your power tools into your backpack and replace the ‘men’s’ sign with one of these. Problem solved.

www.screwfix.com/p/female-wc-sign-satin-stainless-steel-76mm/53305?tc=ST2&ds_kid=92700024701677897&ds_rl=1241687&ds_rl=1245250&ds_rl=1244069&ds_rl=1247848&ds_rl=1245250&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIvM6mmLyz3gIVwdmyCh2m9A47EAQYCSABEgLLTPD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

If the loos were clean and empty why didn't you just use them? Does it matter in the moment what sign is on the door?

Because a man could come in at any time - and yes that bothers me...

These are the HSE standards

www.hse.gov.uk/contact/faqs/toilets.htm

Either separate male and female toilets or a toilet in a separate room.

Does it matter in the moment what sign is on the door?

Yes, if the toilets are just cubicles and if there appears to be extra provision for men.

Be careful walking into unisex loos at universities. They are a very popular location for quickies at my uni.

Men but no Women? Isn't it more usual to have more loos that women can use than men - so here men can use all the loos and women can't? So women have to share regardless and men don't.

A sharpie should do the trick.

Mens and unisex and disabled.

Mens.

I hate to lose our female toilets, I've seen it at a major datacentre, the toilets next to the male toilets, the door has no sign, I can see the female logo being taken off as i can still see the logo shape left on it!

So womens toilets are disappearing? Madness.

It’s like they’ve left menstruation out of the equation. For 3 weeks a month I probably wouldn’t mind using a unisex toilet. I’m peri-menopausal and my periods are HEAVY. If there’s a chance I’m going to need to wash blood off my hands to the wrist, I really don’t want to do it in mixed company. Separate cubicles with sinks are a godsend, but shared washrooms...

Now I want to go in there and smear fake blood everywhere... Not nice for the clean up crew but when it comes to sexism, and dealing with patriarchs, I've found the easiest thing to do is (what someone else said in another thread) just hit them where it hurts the most. Don't want to be in a room with "blood" all over the cubicle, floor and sink? Then give us our own space.