Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

BMJ article, "We need research to explore the interplays between gender identity, mental health and neurodevelopmental problems, sexual orientation, autogynephilia, and unpalatable gender roles"

50 replies

R0wantrees · 31/10/2018 09:12

Published 29 October 2018
'Redesigning gender identity services: an opportunity to generate evidence'
authors: Richard Byng, general practitioner and professor in primary care research, Susan Bewley, emeritus professor of obstetrics and women’s health, Damian Clifford, consultant liaison psychiatrist, Margaret McCartney, general practitioner and freelance writer
(extracts)
"A recent feature in The BMJ implied that new services are all that’s needed to improve transgender healthcare. Providing timely, sensitive services for all, including those who decide to not pursue treatment or detransition, is important. But the article did not question the steep rise in referrals of mainly young women or the potential harms of medical overdiagnosis and overtreatment" (continues)

"Regulated medical practitioners should follow a framework of evidence, not simply respond to client expectations. Creating that evidence to inform quality standards is an ethical imperative. We need research to explore the interplays between gender identity, mental health and neurodevelopmental problems, sexual orientation, autogynephilia, and unpalatable gender roles" (continues)

www.bmj.com/content/363/bmj.k4490

OP posts:
BeerAndBassGuitars · 31/10/2018 09:15

Looks like it's only for subscribers.

ChattyLion · 31/10/2018 09:17

The extract you posted sounds sensible..
A letter to the Eds?

R0wantrees · 31/10/2018 09:21

open access link here:
www.bmj.com/content/363/bmj.k4490.full?ijkey=6lX93kQA0lz5YoB&keytype=ref

OP posts:
MsBeaujangles · 31/10/2018 09:25

I thought this was a good article. The part you quote stood out for me too ('We need research to explore the interplays between gender identity, mental health and neurodevelopmental problems, sexual orientation, autogynephilia, and unpalatable gender roles'). What also stated out to me was who the authors were and weren't!

I have been involved in 2 sets of requests for ethical permission declined. It is difficult to see how we can progress with such research whilst this is happening!

Needmoresleep · 31/10/2018 09:27

I came across Prof Susan Bewley two decades ago and she was considered, including by my obstetrician neighbour who consulted for a medical insurance company, to be very sound and sensible.

heresyandwitchcraft · 31/10/2018 09:30

What an absolutely heartening letter! Well done to the authors.

AspieAndProud · 31/10/2018 09:31

It was the ‘neurodevelopmental problems’ issue that peak transed me in the first case, a huge percentage of children being referred to Tavistock having ‘autistic traits’. Puberty blockers are eugenics.

LangCleg · 31/10/2018 09:32

We need research to explore the interplays between gender identity, mental health and neurodevelopmental problems, sexual orientation, autogynephilia, and unpalatable gender roles.

Wow. That's the great unsayable, said.

Doctors writing to the BMJ saying stuff that would get them deleted on FWR. We are living in strange times.

YetAnotherSpartacus · 31/10/2018 09:37

An excellent letter. Hopefully, it will give others the courage to speak up.

R0wantrees · 31/10/2018 09:46

See Dr Az Hakeem's chapters in 'TRANS: Exploring Gender Identity and Gender Dysphoria. A Guide For Everyone including clinicians (Pulling the Trigger).
The book was published earlier this year. (Profits to a MH charity.)

The opening chapters by Dr Hakeem provide clear descriptions of sex, gender, sexuality, transsexualism, transvestism and autogynephilia etc.

There are then a series of essays from a range of different perspectives.
www.amazon.co.uk/TRANS-Exploring-Identity-Dysphoria-Pulling-ebook/dp/B079NKJ22B?tag=mumsnetforum-21

Dr Az Hakeem:
Medicine MBBS : University College London
Fellow of The Royal College of Psychiatrists
CCST in Forensic Psychiatry
CCST in Psychotherapy
MSc Group Analysis

www.drazhakeem.com/about/

BMJ article, "We need research to explore the interplays between gender identity, mental health and neurodevelopmental problems, sexual orientation, autogynephilia, and unpalatable gender roles"
OP posts:
arranfan · 31/10/2018 09:47

Prof Susan Bewley.... very sound and sensible.

I strongly agree - and the other authors have similarly good credentials and are the sort of people that you would be thrilled to have discovered to have care of your family and friends.

Anyone can post a Rapid Response as they're known if you have an online account with BMJ (it doesn't cost you anything).

www.bmj.com/content/363/bmj.k4490/rapid-responses

MsBeaujangles wrote: I have been involved in 2 sets of requests for ethical permission declined.

Which makes it the more astonishing that parents are willing to allow their children to embark upon unchartered and unevaluated treatments with limited reversibility and lifelong consequences.

I wonder if it will eventually turn out that the, "The only option seemed to be suicide meme" will be retrospectively seen to be underpinning all of this rush to intervention rather than watchful waiting.

Mumfun · 31/10/2018 09:49

Interesting to look at the links they cite: include scholar article on autogynephilia ,Video by C Callahan on detransitioning, huge BMJ resource listing

Annasgirl · 31/10/2018 09:53

Oh thank goodness, hopefully this is the start of a fight back in academic research. It has gotten to the stage where I refuse to discuss this topic with senior people - but many of my young colleagues are appalled at where we are at, but again we are all to scared of the consequences to say anything.

R0wantrees · 31/10/2018 10:05

Oh thank goodness, hopefully this is the start of a fight back in academic research. It has gotten to the stage where I refuse to discuss this topic with senior people - but many of my young colleagues are appalled at where we are at, but again we are all to scared of the consequences to say anything.

current thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3407331-Times-on-activists-threatening-academics

Telegraph 23 DECEMBER 2017:
'Academics say research is being hindered by universities' fear of online backlash'
(extract)
"Academics say they have been forced to leave the country to pursue their research interests as British universities are accused of blocking studies over fears of backlash on social media.

As they come under increasing attack from online activists, some of the country’s leading academics have accused universities of putting their reputations before their responsibility to defend academic freedom.

Speaking to The Sunday Telegraph, they claim that university ethics committees are now “drifting into moral vanity” by vetoing research in areas that are seen as “politically incorrect”. (continues)

The academics have decided to speak out as James Caspian, one of the country’s leading gender specialists, revealed that he is planning to take Bath Spa University to judicial review over its decision to turn down his research into transgenderism.

A professor who recently left a prestigious Russell Group institution to work in Italy said that while safeguards were needed to ensure research was conducted ethically, some universities now appeared to be “covering their own arses”.

“I’ve certainly heard and know of ethics committees voicing concerns about parts of research that would to most of us seem ridiculous. I think they sometimes go too far.

“In general I’m supportive of ethics committees, but there is room for discussion on their criteria. Attracting a lot unwanted attraction on social media...most researchers would not consider that relevant.

“That’s a matter for the PR office, not an ethics committee.”

Dr Heather Brunskell-Evans, a fellow of King’s College London who has previously sat on research awarding bodies, claimed that some universities were becoming “authoritarian”.

Universities project themselves as places of open debate, while at the same time they are very worried about being seen to fall foul of the consensus,” she added." (continues)

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/12/23/academics-say-research-hindered-universities-fear-online-backlash/

thread with background: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3129659-Update-from-James-Caspian-on-his-case-against-Bath-Spa-University-to-be-allowed-to-research-detransitioners?pg=3

( the crowdfunder to fund judicial review is in its last couple of weeks)
www.crowdjustice.com/case/free-speech-matters-round2/

relevent thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3313760-Up-to-150-youngsters-treated-with-puberty-blocking-jabs-might-not-even-be-transgender

OP posts:
R0wantrees · 31/10/2018 10:21

current thread OP Iused2BanOptimist wrote:

"An American professor of psychiatry dares to speak up.

"Historically, contagious popular delusions that deny common sense and fly in the face of reality eventually run their course. This will likely be the fate of the transgender craze. But before it collapses under its own weight, many people will suffer irreparable harm."

thefederalist.com/2016/11/17/psychiatry-professor-transgenderism-mass-hysteria-similar-1980s-era-junk-science/

thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3410252-transgenderism-is-mass-hysteria-similar-to-1980-s-era-junk-science-article-in-the-federalist

OP posts:
OldCrone · 31/10/2018 10:29

Margaret McCartney has written about this issue before.
www.bmj.com/content/360/bmj.k1312

AnonymousIsAWoman · 31/10/2018 10:40

biological sex is not “assigned” but determined at conception and observed at birth, whereas gender is a fluid, social construct

This! So much this!

Also R0wantrees - I love you. That is all.

R0wantrees · 31/10/2018 10:51

gosh, thank you! Grin

OP posts:
arranfan · 31/10/2018 10:59

Also R0wantrees - I love you. That is all.

:) When I saw R0wantrees' thorough and helpful curating of relevant material I was thinking, "If R0wantrees hasn't been recruited as Intelligence Officer or Curator by WPUK or FPFW then she certainly should be - vast loss to FWR as it would be but it would be such a fabulous resource for them".

heresyandwitchcraft · 31/10/2018 11:05

Also R0wantrees - I love you. That is all.

Smile When I saw R0wantrees' thorough and helpful curating of relevant material I was thinking, "If R0wantrees hasn't been recruited as Intelligence Officer or Curator by WPUK or FPFW then she certainly should be - vast loss to FWR as it would be but it would be such a fabulous resource for them".

Halloween Smile My thoughts and feelings exactly.

Prawnofthepatriarchy · 31/10/2018 11:14

I've actually met R0wantrees and she's even more lovely in the flesh.

R0wantrees · 31/10/2018 11:17

It was a pleasure & privilege to meet you Prawn & beyond perfect that we shared prawn sandwiches! Flowers

OP posts:
R0wantrees · 31/10/2018 11:19

I don't have any connection with WPUK or FP4W beyond admiring all they do.
I've been inspired by so many wonderful women this year. Everyone is doing what they can and together, that adds up.

OP posts:
arranfan · 31/10/2018 11:36

I don't have any connection with WPUK or FP4W beyond admiring all they do.

Well, I wish I knew how to recommend recruits to them because I would. I should think they're having to be very word-of-mouth, known-eachother-for-decades at present but I look at what they're achieving and believe that they could be even more effective if someone had their backs with additional research or even freed them up to conduct some of the larger-scale FOIs and projects that need to be done.

arranfan · 31/10/2018 11:37

^^ In case it wasn't obvious - I would recommend R0wantrees to them.