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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Most people still dont know about self ID

15 replies

CrazyToast · 27/10/2018 00:04

I was talking to some lesbian friends today and they knew nothing about the consultation or self ID. Is it too late to inform people? How to let people know?

OP posts:
PencilsInSpace · 27/10/2018 00:13

No it's not too late at all. If the government wants to change the GRA they have to introduce a bill and debate it in parliament.

Keep spreading the word. Write to your MP and encourage others to do so.

Gentlygently · 27/10/2018 07:31

If you feel comfortable sharing the petition re prisons that can be a good way to introduce it.

IdaBWells · 27/10/2018 08:00

It’s not surprising at all that most people are oblivious. Initially the governments meetings and discussions about changing the GRA were only with trans activist groups. I believe womens’ groups asked to be involved but were basically rejected. Then the consultation itself online was aimed at trans gender individuals, there were no questions suggesting how changing the definition of “woman” to one of self ID could have serious repercussions for women or acknowledge their concerns.

It was clear that like the original GRA in 2004 that trans activists hoped to quietly slip this through parliament without the vast majority of the public knowing anything about it. I initially was unaware and found out about it on these boards. Then I did lots of reaserch and reading. I spoke to friends and family and nobody was aware of it.

We need to keep discussing this with everyone, keep organizing and keep approaching our MPs. Every major survey so far has shown the British public do NOT support self-ID and by a large margin. That is the news that is suppressed as they try to imply that our views are of a tiny “extreme” minority, which is clearly Fake News 😊.

Most of the British public identify human beings by their biological sex, not gender. They are mostly happy to “live and let live” when individuals prefer to present as a different gender, but not be forced to accept the ideological concept that a person with a penis is identical to a woman and a person with a vagina is in exactly the same category as a man.

Gncq · 27/10/2018 08:51

The total responses were 53,000, I understand just over 20,000 of those responses were directly from Fair Play for Women's website who produce ed a GC feminist one-click response.
Those I encouraged to fill out the consultation were all GC (Including my Dad!)
I would be confident to think that within the remaining 33,000 responses, at least a third would have been against self-ID. Because we are absolutely not a minority.

But keep talking. Most importantly, especially if you have a labour MP, write, meet, write, meet.

I have written numerous times to Stella Creasey and she has invited me twice but her replies have pissed me off too much so I couldn't bear to meet her in person despite voting for her at the last election. Never again it must be said.

Public awareness is the key. Once the public turn, politicians will have to turn.

R0wantrees · 27/10/2018 09:10

It was clear that like the original GRA in 2004 that trans activists hoped to quietly slip this through parliament without the vast majority of the public knowing anything about it. I initially was unaware and found out about it on these boards. Then I did lots of reaserch and reading. I spoke to friends and family and nobody was aware of it.

THis was confirmed by Christine Burns who described the success of 'Press For Change' in Guardian article 2013:
(extract)
"In the 90s, when she was chair of the Women's Supper Club of the local Conservative party association in Cheshire, she quietly joined Press for Change. Even then, the new activists dared not be openly trans. "The thing that held us back in the 1990s campaigning was that fear of being out," admits Burns. Eventually, she came out in 1995; she jokes that she realised she was more embarrassed to be a member of the Conservative party than openly transsexual.

Much of their campaigning remained on the quiet. The passage of the 2004 law to give trans people legal status was "remarkable," says Burns, because "the government was able to pass an entire act in parliament without anyone throwing a fit in the press". (continues)

www.theguardian.com/society/2013/jan/22/voices-from-trans-community-prejudice

R0wantrees · 27/10/2018 09:13

If you feel comfortable sharing the petition re prisons that can be a good way to introduce it.

petition.parliament.uk/petitions/228767

Sicario · 27/10/2018 09:21

I am taking the time to explain to people about self-id and it's ramifications. The usual reaction I get is that they think I must be wrong and that this can't possibly be happening. I stick to the important points - that sex is not the same as gender, and that if the meaning of WOMAN is changed to include MEN then we cannot define and uphold women's rights enshrined in law.

It takes a while for the penny to drop. We must not change the law to protect a tiny minority from having hurt feelings, as it would mean throwing the rights of 51% of the population under the bus.

I am opening this conversation at every opportunity and the ripples are definitely spreading.

Invisible1234 · 27/10/2018 09:25

People also don't know that we've gone from gender dysphoria to part time cross dressers, and that hormones and surgery are not a requirement.

This is only the thin end of the wedge, demands won't stop here, so we do need to keep on raising awareness.

Invisible1234 · 27/10/2018 09:27

Remember what's happening in our schools, to teenagers, to women prisoners, to organisations like Girl Guides...it hasn't stopped with the consultation.

FekkoThePenguin · 27/10/2018 09:29

But once you hear it you can't forget! Tell a person a day. It's up to them whether they think it's fair or not but the silencing of voices is undemocratic and typical male bullying.

R0wantrees · 27/10/2018 09:36

Excellent article here by Julian Vigo:

'"Evil Womxn": The Silencing Of Biological Reality And The Technology Of Obfuscation'
(extract)
Still, we do know is that identity is psychological and not somatic. To date that there is no proof that gender identity for some is anything more than a manifestation of “gender dysphoria, a condition classified in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM–5). While for many others, given the recent evidence of ROGD (rapid-onset gender dysphoria) amongst adolescents in recent years, it is widely believed that we are facing a wave of social transitioners who are self-identifying as transgender because of a social contagion. Nowhere is this more apparent than in the UK where the onslaught of pro-trans lobby groups have infiltrated the education system—even advising the NHS despite these groups not being professionally qualified in this field—such that there has been a 4000% increase over the past decade in girls presenting to the country’s only gender clinic for children, the Tavistock in London, self-identifying as transgender. If anything speaks to the fact that gender is social and sex somatic, it is this rising numbers of girls being sterilized by puberty blockers. To clarify—that’s their sex, not gender, being permanently shutdown for any possible reproduction, in addition to the skyrocketing increase of voluntary mastectomies of these girls as young as 13.

So what is the fallout from this attempt to conflate sex with gender? First, you have the recent phenomenon of males wanting to be housed in female prisons, such as the recent case of Karen White. Aside from the tragedy of the women he raped behind bars, the fact that now crime statistics falsely reporting “women as rapists” will sky rocket over time giving inaccurate census information and misdirecting much needed services for women (eg. women are the overwhelming victims of male violence, not the perpetrators thereof).

Relatedly, in areas where there is a recognition of women in certain fields, you now have males who are entering into this framework taking accolades and other forms of recognition from women, such as Pippa/Philip Bruce who received the Financial Times Top 50 Female champions of Women in Business. Bruce is a transvestite who comes to work in a suit or dress depending on his mood. And the recent removal of the word woman from a major Pap smear campaign by Cancer Research UK this past summer, angered women across the UK, replacing “woman” with “anyone with a cervix” as has Planned Parenthood’s removal of “pregnant woman”, now replacing this with “pregnant person” in tandem with media that is capitulating unquestioningly ideology. And this week The Guardian ran a fake news piece saying that “YouGov asked 538 menstruators about their experiences of period pain in the workplace.” Yet when you go to the YouGov website to see this poll, nowhere does the abject word “menstruator” appear. This was the fabulation of Guardian writer Poppy Noor scoring some “woke points.”

Are feminists being alarmist to think that the category of women is not only under erasure but that there is a conscious political ploy to render biological females invisible? Well, when Brendan O’Neill who is usually quite critical of feminists, come to call out this very erasure of women in the public sphere, we must realize that this is a massive problem and a serious threat to the rights of women. It is time for everyone to pay close attention to what is actually going on." (continues)

www.forbes.com/sites/julianvigo/2018/10/26/evil-womxn-the-silencing-of-biological-reality-and-the-technology-of-obfuscation/#428c420218fd

CrazyToast · 27/10/2018 13:23

It's true that even just mentioning can plant a seed in people's minds, which grows. I have a very woke friend who posted about terfs and stickers and hate. Any heavy-handed approach would have her backing right off and probably ditching me as a friend. Instead I asked her why she thought it the stickers were about hate and she replied 'cos terfs'. I explained that i don't use that word as it is misogynistic. She asked me why it was a slur, because she had heard that said before but didn't understand why-this was my opening!. I sent her four articles, 3 GC and one pro self-ID. I said if she read them she would get an idea of the issues, and told her about the consultation. I deliberately chose articles all by trans women and lesbians so they were harder to dismiss as female 'terfs'. And I've just left her to it. She is an intelligent person. The seed will be planted but what she chooses to do with it is now up to her.

OP posts:
FekkoThePenguin · 27/10/2018 13:43

Cos terfs
Stickers of hate

Can't argue with that 🤪

R0wantrees · 27/10/2018 14:07

Article by Amy Dyess published this week demonstrates how the word 'terf' is used:

(extract)
"TERF was initially used as an acronym that meant Trans-Exclusionary Radical Feminist, but the term has always been used to muzzle women from discussing our rights. For the past year and half, TERF has been widely used as homophobic hate speech aimed at all lesbians. That’s right… ALL lesbians.

You don’t have to be a radical feminist to be labeled a TERF. A lesbian can make it clear she believes trans people deserve human rights and respect, but she’s still a “TERF” because her sexual orientation has an innate boundary. That boundary is same-sex attraction for other adult human females. Lesbians are the only sexual orientation that excludes penis, and that makes us the most dangerous adversary to the patriarchy.

Extremists don’t believe women, chiefly lesbians, deserve boundaries. That’s what this issue is all about. They disguise their misogyny and homophobia as social justice in order to gain support from people who are misinformed. So-called “progressives” are openly oppressing and condemning the homosexual community, primarily the lesbian community.

The Economist has banned the use of “TERF” in articles and comments because the slur “may have started as a descriptive term but is now used to try to silence a vast swathe of opinions on trans issues, and sometimes to incite violence against women.” Unfortunately, too many journalists and sites have decided to do the opposite. Even editors are doubling down on their misogyny and homophobia." (continues with many examples)

concludes, "I hereby call upon all media, including social media platforms, to follow The Economist’s example and ban the slur TERF. It’s time to move on to civil debate about trans rights and women’s rights. TERF is hate speech and it’s time to condemn it."

medium.com/@amydyess83/terf-is-hate-speech-and-its-time-to-condemn-it-6efc897ce407

thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3405680-Amy-Dyess-article-TERF-Is-Hate-Speech-and-It-s-Time-to-Condemn-It

BeyondAdultHumanFemale · 27/10/2018 14:39

I was talking to my sister yesterday about this, and she said she would have had no clue about it if she hadn't seen the posts I share on fb. And she even reads mn!!

She did the consultation before I even had chance to ask her - gold star for you dsis Star

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