Natural lifestyles vs. transitioning kids - how are the two reconciled?

[cockblocker]

I’m a little confused by the incongruity between putting a child on a lifetime course of medication as a route which allows them to express their true identity and thus happiness, whilst simultaneously natural remedies and self-acceptance are celebrated. I know someone who is very vocal about the importance of natural ingredients in cosmetics, is vegan, a nature lover with very new agey beliefs and is also a champion of body positivity. Additionally, this person is supportive of gay rights and their daughter, who is autistic, has come out as gay. The child is currently seeking the advice of the gender clinic, and whilst I’ve always considered this mother to be a great parent, I don’t understand how she can elevate the importance of natural purity and self-acceptance in other areas, yet sees a path to medication with uncertain long-term health prospects as the way to deal with gender dysphoria (I admit I don't know this person well and am not trying to judge). Does it all come down to the way in which we have been marketed consumer goods to express our identity, so that any choice which provides self-affirmation is a valid one? Isn’t that just nonsense if so many of these choices then contradict each other? Fast feminists praise those who go on Instagram make-up free and use the hashtag #strongnotskinny to promote healthy fit bodies over starving ones. At the same time, there is also a parallel rise in cosmetic surgery procedures, yet those who follow the natural route to personal acceptance often don't speak out about this. How can choice itself be the ultimate holy grail, when the choice involves spending vast amounts of money and endangering one’s health by submitting to patriarchal ideas of what it is to be a woman? Is choice the reason why such an unhealthy and artificial solution to gender dysphoria is so easily swallowed as a modern-day fairy tale, when the reality is so drastically unhealthy? Furthermore, is this the end result of post-feminism, that it has allowed for a pornographic version of femininity to become the mainstream, and for those young girls who thus feel horrified at the prospect of having to become a sex doll in order to be accepted volunteer instead to be maimed so as to present themselves as men? I’m sure it’s incredibly difficult as a parent to choose how to best deal with a child with gender dysphoria or AGP and I don’t wish to insult anybody for the incredibly difficult decisions they have to make, but I find it hard to understand how anyone can justify these conflicting stances.

Spot on, Jaffa!

Of course most major religions are mega money making/power orientated organisations too! Look at the wealth and influence of the Catholic Church.

Manipulating belief is the way to great power and great wealth.

And to finish off the point I was poorly trying to make - the vegan natural types aren’t into veganism and naturalism because they genuinely think that those ideals are the best way to live their life. Primarily (even though there are other benefits) the main point is to give them an identity, a group membership by which they can feel superior to others.

It’s everywhere - audiophiles who sneer at people using the standard headphones and not gold-plated oxygen free stuff; the organic only crowd, the couldn’t possibly send my child to state school brigade, and everyone who doesn’t agree with me is either stupid or big nasty meanies. It’s just that only a few of these bandwagons (transactivism and the anti vas brigade spring to mind) actually cause harm or widespread disruption.

And whilst I’m here (I’ve had my weetabix this morning), I think the more unequal a society, the more likely you are to encounter these movements, as people search for a reason as to why they aren’t the winners in an unequal society.

Jaffa - Yes, I completely agree. I have no objection to veganism, some people have been doing that for years already and it is certainly a more environmentally friendly way of life, but it has also been adopted by an attention-seeking demographic of the kind you describe. I also think in many cases with young girls I have seen that it is masking an eating disorder, as it gives them a reason to refuse food unless it meets their criteria.

It’s all ‘wokeness’ isn’t it.

That's what I think with this person I mentioned in the OP, she's quite fragile and latches onto trends which involve buying lots of products that are marketed with a pseudo-religious undertone to them. It didn't used to bother me too much, even though I'm a sceptic and don't buy into products and beliefs that have a lack of evidence behind them, because I thought the placebo effect was at least giving her some comfort. However, it alarms me now that her vulnerable autistic daughter seems to have developed ROGD, as to be blunt she's already demonstrated her lack of critical thinking skills through all the other trends she has followed. I feel like I want to say something but I don't know her well enough, really.

*didn't use to - had to correct that!

Jaffa Good comment about individualism and society.

Thanks cockblocker! (I’ve always wanted to say that 😂)

Well I wonder, the fact that working-class people generally have a high level of BS detection and they haven’t been awash in so much of the propaganda could protect them. I hope so.

I don’t know if you saw that recent thread when some TRAs got quite hysterical over the fact that some women were handing out leaflets for Dr. Nic Williams organization with info on self-ID to young working class men. They had an attitude that as they were young they would be thugs and an immediate threat. Pretty offensive. Both my parents were from working class families and my aunts and uncles are scary in their ability to think critically and love a long profound debate as much as the next person. I am not really in a position to chat to them at the mo but I would really like to get their thoughts.

Also the societies in the USA and the UK are quite different in terms of class structure and how people identify. They don’t really use class terms but masses of class signifiers over here.

My current project is working my way through the 3 hour video posted on Feminist Chat of the philosopher (sorry can’t remember her name, I think it’s Clare something Jones) I am really trying to understand where the hell all these bizarre ideas came from and how they spread. So far the French and Americans have a lot to answer for, from what I understand in my current reading. I had never heard of Judith Butler until a week ago for example.

Thanks for your good wishes, I am in great form! This condition has blessed me in that I have spent MONTHS reading Feminist Chat and all the alleys it has sent me down edumacating myself 😀.

Jaffa excellent posts and points. Blimey it is really great around here at 3am Pacific time!

Love your point about wealthy white blokes needing to figure out a way to stay on top of the mountain top where they can give the rest of us a good kicking. Who would’ve thought they realized that once in a dress they were the most oppressed ever! Just call everyone else cis and/or a transphobe and you’re golden!

And you get to keep your penis and be a Lesbian!

this has all reminded me of when DCs were small (so early 90s) and I and many of my friends were very particular about what we ate- to varying degrees, from no sugar in any form ever to no processed food to organic only to organic-if-affordable. At the time I got round to thinking this was a reaction to the scariness of being a parent, especially in the cold war era. Many of us thought that a nuclear war was a serious possibility, and one we couldn't really control. PLus all the day to day hazards in our kids lives that were also beyond our control. The one thing we COULD control was what we put in their mouths (or so we thought, haha) and I think that was a kind of compensation for us.
So.....I wonder if manufacturing a new identity for yourself is a variation on that, a way to control something when the rest of the world can't be controlled? Capitalism is still implicated of course because it is selling the identity

Hi, cockblocker. You say that your friend is only asking questions about the gender clinic. I'm sure she will be relieved if it turns out her child isn't trans, precisely because it is so much simpler for someone to be gay rather than trans.

I’m a little confused by the incongruity between putting a child on a lifetime course of medication as a route which allows them to express their true identity and thus happiness, whilst simultaneously natural remedies and self-acceptance are celebrated.

Reminds me of how some people who bang on about their coffee being ethically sourced think nothing about taking cocaine. It’s not like coke is farmed by workers’ cooperatives.

The families I know transitioning their (small) children are very much like this. They share memes about your child being the wisest person you can learn from and blogs about unschooling and letting the child lead. One family struggle with having vaccines as they don't feel ill, everything centred around their feelings and natural instincts. They consider every instinct equally valid, a two year old nervous about going to nursery is treated as the equivalent of an adult with agoraphobia or anxiety.

I don't think it's cognitive dissonance as much for them as the prioritising of "innate knowledge," over "acquired knowledge," and the idea that everyone can have their own opinion on factual matters, so there isn't an objective truth. They would just "feel" that certain medicine in unnecessary, they just feel like a boy/ girl, I don't doubt they would "feel" the drugs necessary later on. The thing I find strange is that neither family is very tolerant of religion.