Male teacher fired for refusing to supervise a boys' locker room, where an FTM was showering

[Scrumplestiltskin]

mobile.wnd.com/2018/10/male-teacher-ordered-to-observe-teen-girl-in-shower/

He was fired from his job, because he didn't want to risk getting an eyeful of a naked minor female. I am aghast

I’m glad at least one teacher hasn’t completely taken leave of his senses.

Absolutely ridiculous that you can now lose your job for not being a Pervy-paedo.

I don't know, that may be true, something about it sounds off to me. I definitely think it could happen, but that site looks shock/horror.

Juells Fair enough - I haven't had a good look at the site, just read the article. I'll give it a Google and see what I can find.

Clicky: [[
mobile.wnd.com/2018/10/male-teacher-ordered-to-observe-teen-girl-in-shower/]]

Story in Florida - I'm pleased the teacher has support from Liberty Counsel

Thanks arranfan!

It seems that Liberty Counsel is a not-great Evangelical Christian organisation, but they've got it right here.
It seems to be a very minor story only pushed by them, so hasn't made major news, but also genuine.
I found their statements on their site, here
www.lc.org/newsroom/details/102418-fl-schools-shocking-plan
And there's also a pdf (will auto download on mobile,) here
lc.org/PDFs/Attachments2PRsLAs/2018/102418LtrtoPascoCountySchools.pdf
Excerpt:
Both of the P.E. teachers, Robert O. and Stephanie C., objected to administrators’ orders to allow the girl into the bathroom, with no forewarning of the boys, or their parents, so that the boys could take steps to protect their privacy. Administrators told them that informing the boys so they could take steps to protect their privacy would be “discriminatory,” and subject them to discipline.
Robert also objected to administrators’ order that he continue to walk into and supervise the locker room, despite a girl potentially being nude or undressed in that area.
The administrators told him that the girl in question had “every right to use the locker room,” including the right to disrobe in the open locker area, and shower in its open showers, where Robert is required to periodically walk in and supervise. Robert will not knowingly place himself in a position to observe a minor female in the nude or otherwise in a state of undress. Now, Robert has been told by administrators that he will be transferred to another school as discipline for “not doing your job in the locker room.”
Yesterday (Thursday, September 27, 2018), the girl was admitted to the boys locker
room for the first time, and walked in, catching boys (literally) with their pants down, causing them embarrassment and concern by the fact that they had been observed changing by an obvious girl. Boys immediately came out of the locker room, and approached Stephanie and Robert, seeking assistance. The P.E. teachers were powerless to respond, because administrators had placed a gag order on them, and told them that they could not answer the boys on these questions. Today, boys were asking Robert why he is not supervising them. Again, he was not able to respond.
No law requires this course of events. Objective biological sex – male and female –is (and should remain) the determining factor for access to gender-appropriate public school facilities and programs, not subjective mental “identity” claims or beliefs that one is the opposite sex, or a feeling that one is not one’s actual biological sex. The District is violating male students’ and teachers’ rights at Chasco Middle School.

The policy of separate changing rooms being by head-feel rather than biological sex is clearly crazy. However, if it is happening then a sensible (ideally gender-critical) grownup of one sex or the other does need to supervise the room, for the safety of all students. Refusing to supervise makes a bad situation worse. The changing room is now a mixed-sex area so the sex of the supervising teacher is less relevant so long as someone is supervising. If that grownup is aware of the difference between sex and gender then that's best.

Hopefully a path out of the crazy can be found.

The issues then, tenorladybeaker is that either a female teacher will be staring at a roomful of naked boys, or a male teacher will be forced to potentially observe a naked minor female
The only men I know of who might be okay with seeing naked minor females (who aren't their own small children,) are sleazy bastards who would enjoy it

Besides anything wouldn't it be triggering to a FTM to see a load of normal cocks and bollocks and remind them of what they can never be?

But it seems that the creation of this mixed-sex changing space was done with zero consultation. The boys seems to have been as surprised by it as much as anyone else. It's hugely unfair on them too.

No win position for teacher.

Very unfair on the boys
Nobody cares about them only the trans person feelings
I wonder if the parents of the trans person know that the trans person is getting naked with boys and making them uncomfortable
Ffs no girl I know would go into boys changing room
So selfish but then this stuff is selfish

i can't see how the teachers can win here.

It's also unfair on the boys - my DS would be mortified - he's more body shy than my girls at the minute.

I don't understand why time and again the none trans children's needs and comfort get ignored.

Why on earth can't schools have proper shower cubicles? I never showered in a communal shower when I was at school, nobody did. I'd have hated to run around naked in front of other girls, never mind a teacher.

I back the teacher 100%.

Rebecca36 I never had a shower at school and neither did my sons. Some schools seem very strict on it though. We did have to get changed for swimming in a communal room though (which was closed off from the main changing rooms) so presumably thats the same situation.
I support the teacher 100% as well as the boys who are entitled to privacy and the dignity of not having their private parts viewed by a member of the opposite sex without their consent. And any girls who are placed in the same situation.
The trans person should be offered a facility where they can get changed in privacy if they feel unable to get changed with people of their own sex. It's a perfectly simple and straightforward solution.

That news site seems to have a very bizarre selection of other stories.

Teachers are constantly warned not to put themselves in a position where they can be accused of any kind of sexual abuse or perving. Malicious accusations, followed by immediate suspension and possible disgrace are a serious problem in the profession. That's a big reason why this is so ridiculous. No teacher should be obliged to do this on their own - there should, at the very least, be another adult there, IMO, and probably an adult female. Simply for the teacher's protection.

When our school brought in the shower rule we changed into swimsuits in the toilets and showered wearing them!!
As ridiculous as expecting 14/15 yo to suddenly appear naked to their year group!

Kestrel that's what I assumed. It's put the teacher in exactly the sort of situation he's spent years being told not to get into

At one High School I went to (many years ago!) no one ever took showers. The girls had been made to feel very uncomfortable by he supervision of the changing room by a female teacher they distrusted and en masse refused to shower. It was ingrained behaviour by the time I went there.
Roll on to now and my own DD is finding the changing arrangements at her High School still to be embarrassing and lacking privacy.
Given how important exercise is to health, this is a problem. Throw in the current complications of trans pupils and it's even more complicated. Schools must realise how excruciating some kids find changing for sport.

I don't know what the answer is here but does anyone really believe that with the teacher recruitment crisis and the strength of the teaching unions, a teacher with an otherwise unblemished record would be sacked for not doing something he was asked and where most people would understand his discomfort?

It takes ages to move on really poor teachers who are letting kids down everyday. No teacher has ever been sacked for questioning a single situation.

It's Florida, not here, and I don't know what the recruitment situation is like there, but even so, I agree with a previous poster that there's something not quite right about this.

Doesn't sound like he's been sacked. Just moved to another school. Presumably where he won't face the same dilemma

My girls' grammar school in the mid 1960s had an open shower and changing room. No cubicles, no privacy. We were watched by the games teacher as we walked through the shower. Most of us hated it, but were told 'not to be so silly' if we said anything. Needless to say, most of us had a constant period.

I just found this article on Twitter and came looking to see if there was a thread on it.

The teacher was definately in the right. And I feel awful for the boys who have had their privacy invaded like that. The privacy issue usually gets forgotten about when eveeyone is busy accusing others of labelling children as sex pests. But the privacy is important. And boundries matter for both boys and girls

And yes it highlights the difficulties with the staffing aswell . Because if, like here , parents can be kept in the dark , where does that leave the teacher when the lid says "Mr x was supervising the showers today"

Hed never shake that off at school. Or in the local area his career woukd be over

In general, I'd hate to be a teacher or responsible for minors right now. Who knows how all this is going to play out? Any suspicion of sexual behaviour with minors is incredibly dangerous - the traditional way that any adult with any sense would deal with this would be by utterly rigid boundaries to be safer-than-safe in terms of never being seen to be too intimate with a young person. If the line is "here" then you had acres of space on the other side of the line to be safer-than-safe. Now that the whole trans situation is actually about DEMANDING forms of personal intimacy and refusal is PHOBIC - then that whole safe space on the other side of the line is open to a different set of questions. And we don't know which side is going to "win" in any given set of circumstances.

Usually I have no patience with (arguably pervy) men going "things are changing so fast, Me Too, etc, I don't know what to do any more" but actually this is a pretty terrifying situation