Is the trans/prison controversy is a red herring and there is really a prison safety crisis?

[astoundedgoat]

This is NOT based on any research or measuring of data at all, but has it been discussed that the male-bodied prisoners who identify as women and aim to be transferred to women's prisons are not a trans issue but a prison safety issue?

Some of these men (most, to my eyes?) appear to be men who are traditionally unpopular in prison - child abusers, rapists - and having realised that the prison system is completely unable/unwilling to keep them physically safe, are they taking the only "logical" route to safety - being transferred to a women's prison? (A system that also blatantly lacks proper protections for inmates as we have just seen in the case of Karen White.)

If you face a very real risk being killed or maimed in prison, why not manipulate the self ID system that gives you an "out"?

Is prisoner safety just completely shit in the UK? And if prison was safe for prisoners would we be seeing so much (surely cynical) transing while an inmate (Karen White, Carrie/Gary Cooper etc)?

Maybe an element of it is that they think treatment will be better in a woman’s prison. But really I think it’s just a very very small amount of pervy men who make the headlines and in turn cause hysteria over ‘trans people invading women’s spaces to assault them’ and cause prejudice towards all trans men. Sad really.

My husband's an officer in a prison for sex offenders (well it's called an institution for vulnerable prisoners, but it's 99% paedophiles and rapists who have committed horrendous crimes). Most "vulnerable" prisoners are kept far far away from others.

Interestingly enough he has several male prisoners who dress as women and consider themselves transsexuals in the old school sense of the word.

There's a prison safety crisis generally. It's been well reported.

It can only be exacerbated by removing sex segregation.

HTH

Francis Crook executive director of the Howard League for Penal Reform "said that she was worried that ‘some men with a history of extreme violence and sexual violence against women have found a new way of exercising aggression towards women’.

‘These men are not transitioning because they like women and want to be a woman, but in order to exert a new kind of control and dominance over women, a sort of infiltration."

source:
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5798945/Trans-women-convicted-men-attack-vulnerable-inmates.html

Claude Knights (safeguarding expert retired after 15 years as head of Kidscape)
on sex offenders who transition and are afforded the opportunity to change their name and hide their history as a consequence & recent case of "Christopher Noble, 32, transitioned to Christyl Knight while behind bars for keeping a stash of over 4,000 vile pictures and videos of kids as young as six months old"

“Allowing these individuals to hide a secret past is a dangerous practice.”
“Anyone who’s fuelled the vile trade in indecent images of children and therefore contributed to their sexual abuse should not be allowed to change their name.”

[[www.thescottishsun.co.uk/news/3006679/paedophile-jailed-transgender-christyl-knight-christopher-nobile/]]

These men are not transitioning because they like women and want to be a woman, but in order to exert a new kind of control and dominance over women, a sort of infiltration.

Not sure this is only true of prisoners actually, seems like a pretty fair assessment in general to me.

I can think of a few good reasons why a convicted male criminal might want to ID as a woman:

1. To be transferred to the women's estate where it's safer and more comfortable.
2. Easier access to victims if you're a sex offender.
3. You can cover your tracks if you want to hide historic crimes. Again, particularly useful for sex offenders.

The only surprise is that it isn't more common. Why aren't they all doing it?

Add to that list exerting power over authority in the only way you can, when incarcerated by authority in a place where you have no power.

And it is a trans issue because it is a perfect example of the abuse of self-ID and the powerlessness of the exemptions in the EA.

The fact that prisons generally are underfunded, overcrowded, dangerous places has nothing to do with whether or not they should be segregated by sex.

Prisoners who have offended against children are at risk from other prisoners in both male and female prisons.
If anything, they are safer in a men's 'vulnerable prisoners unit', where they will be surrounded by people with a similar offending history.

I'd be genuinely interested in a full discussion of reforming the criminal justice and penal system by genuinely knowledgeable researchers/commenters/workers like Richard Garside and Frances Crook along with some of the other intriguing experts that crop up.

I'd like to know what the necessary reforms might be, their costings, anticipated advantages, impacts on society and so forth.

I'd like to know what the necessary reforms might be, their costings, anticipated advantages, impacts on society and so forth.

The Corston Report (2006) and the Corston Report: 10 years on (2016), commissioned by the Home Office, with research by the Prison Reform Trust:

Precis:
Most women in prison have committed petty offences. Very many have been victims of serious crime and sustained abuse. A new commission for women, with a sensible blueprint for reform across government departments, will largely do away with big prisons that operate as social dustbins for vulnerable women and introduce instead a network of small units and effective local services coupled with proper supervision and support. Many women who offend will have their first real opportunity to beat drugs, drink, mental illness and crime and to take responsibility for their lives, and those of their children, and most will take it.

Yes there is a prison safety crisis. No it isn't helped by housing men in the female estate

Instead of being a red herring, there are some very interesting and noteworthy issues brought into the spotlight:

1. Government policy on handling prisoners was outsourced to a pro-trans organisation with no expertise in managing offenders

1. Government guidelines centred the needs of trans prisoners following TRA pressure (Tara Hudson case)

1. A pro-trans adviser, with no expertise, sat on the Review Body that looked at how best to accommodate trans prisoners.

1. The ignorance around the links between transgenderism and sexual fetish/paraphilias - allowing transgender prisoners to get off on controlling and exerting power over prison authority figures.

1. The powerlessness of prison officers who saw through the pretended transitions - ie the ones hoping to gain special privileges, status and transfers - but could do nothing about it.

1. The fact that the government's naivete, ignorance, wilful blindness and irresponsibility led to crimes that could have been prevented.

1. The prison situation demonstrated that women's views didn't matter one jot. There was no advocate and women prisoners needs were ignored.

In short, the prison situation lifted the lid on how the establishment, in thrall to a lobby group, has been made to look foolish, inept and bloody dangerous. The pro-trans guidance is still in place and I, for one, will not be letting it lie until the guidance is reviewed and women's needs prioritised.

theOtherPamAyres - thank you for the very helpful information about women prisoners.

In addition to the desperate plight of women and the absurd level of influence achieved by a single-interest lobby group, I would like to know what a reform of the whole thing, for everyone, including men, juveniles, and children would look like.

It's almost a cliche that Dostoevsky claimed: The degree of civilization in a society can be judged by entering its prisons.

And, in his, Address by President Nelson Mandela at the official launch of the Retraining and Human Rights Project of the Department of Correctional Services, Mandela wrote: The way that a society treats its prisoners is one of the sharpest reflections of its character.
...
The full contribution which our prisons can make towards a permanent reduction in the country's crime-rate lies also in the way in which they treat prisoners. We cannot emphasise enough the importance of both professionalism and respect for human rights.

We need a climate that is conducive to prisoners becoming law-abaiding citizens. We will not find lasting solutions if we continue to treat our prisoners in the old way, denying them their dignity and their rights as humans.

And if our prisons are to become places of rehabilitation we need to equip the men and women who work in them to do the job professionally and effectively. We need to ensure that prisoners as well as correctional officials have an understanding of human rights and of their respective responsibilities.

www.mandela.gov.za/mandela_speeches/1998/980625_dcshr.htm

This is the sort of discussion I think it would be valuable to have as a society and I feel we have a responsibility to understand how money is spent on the criminal justice system and to what value (for the individuals and for society).

I think the decision to not take women’s needs into consideration stems a bit from the old ‘lock ‘em up and throw away the key’ mentality. If these women had been terrible enough to be locked up for their transgressions, they do not deserve someone to stand up for them.