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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

We Level Up

9 replies

Charliethefeminist · 24/10/2018 10:37

As someone pointed out, We Level Up is in favour of Self ID. Like most transactivist organisations, it has enjoyed a swift rise to influence, enjoying a meeting with IPSO on how domestic abuse is reported. (straight to the top - access that women's rights groups can only fantasise about) This is the kind of soft power that was used five years ago to get most media organisations to change their reporting to pro trans friendly language.

This time the tactic is slightly different, it's playing on the 'let's be nice to women' line, as described in the thread about the #stillhere conference.

So what are We Level Up trying to do? Some of us have noticed that transactivists really dislike phrases like 'male violence' and specifically dislike blaming generalised problems like street harassment on men. Is this the agenda being brought to the conversation with IPSO?

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Charliethefeminist · 24/10/2018 10:39

They are @welevelup if you want to see them on twitter. Doing a good job of looking as if they are pro women, until you realise their campaigning will put more women in danger by removing female spaces.

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bluetitsaretits · 24/10/2018 13:51

Yes, they're a big disappointment.

In this article (dated June) We Level Up co-founder Carys Afoko says "We need to be working towards public spaces being gender-neutral and safe for everyone." -yeah, cos that's possible! !

Guardian article :
www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/jun/26/trans-women-single-sex-spaces-cruel-impossible

arranfan · 26/10/2018 14:35

I remember a previous discussion about Afoko and We Level Up in which they're frankly proud that they're free of feminist education or activism and just want to espouse fun.

We want feminism to be easy to understand: Plenty of people care about gender equality who haven’t read lots of feminist theory or been involved in activism. Level Up is the place for them.

We want to have fun: Living with sexism can be tiring. We want to make campaigning as fun and enjoyable as possible and try not to take ourselves too seriously all the time.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3289502-Guardian-article-its-cruel-to-keep-trans-women-from-single-sex-spaces

ErrolTheDragon · 26/10/2018 15:19

try not to take ourselves too seriously all the time.

Jolly good. Let's hope no-one else takes them seriously either then.

MrsTerryPratchett · 26/10/2018 15:25

Living with sexism can be tiring. We want to make campaigning as fun and enjoyable as possible and try not to take ourselves too seriously all the time.

You'll like us. We're not like other girls.

arranfan · 26/10/2018 15:27

Let's hope no-one else takes them seriously either then.

It does raise the question as to why they have a seat at tables where actual experts aren't welcome. It feels similar to Stock's speech about who was invited to address Miller's committee and whose evidence was accepted into the report.

It would be awfully convenient if these are the sort of women's groups who were consulted (unbeknownst to anyone else) when the Govt. claims to have consulted women's groups about various controversial changes.

Charliethefeminist · 26/10/2018 15:47

It's everyday feminism all over again. They just got wise to the fact that 'lipstick choice is empowering' doesny cut it any more.

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ohello · 26/10/2018 23:13

Unfortunately, other people will take them seriously. Radical feminists have understood for a very long time that media outlets love liberal feminism. So sticking our heads in the sand isn't a viable strategy. We know they're changing their tactics slightly, trying to make themselves look harmless. Their new thing is to pretend to be (liberal) feminists who have women's best interests at heart. Which automatically positions us as "angry manhaters on the fringe who do not speak for most women".

So. In my opinion (just to make it clear that other opinions are welcome) clear direct sunlight is the most effective way to combat their nonsense. Just like we've already been doing, except even more clear and even more direct.

Women don't have penises

Women don't want penises in our shower cubicles.

Little girls don't want to sleep with your penis on overnight camping trips.

Women have a right to object to penises in places where we are vulnerable and/or disrobing. Women have a right to gather together in order to discuss these things.

Highlights the actual problem in a way that is impossible for reasonable people to ignore. When our side makes things so complicated that it takes twelve pages or an hour of video to explain what is in reality a very simple problem, most people are going to switch off out of sheer boredom.

Advertising research is very clear on this point: you must draw them in with the simple before expecting them to be interested in hearing more.

ohello · 26/10/2018 23:22

There is a reason why I keep saying penis. It's because for those who are new to the subject, or even those who think they understand, there is a tendency to get really confused and bogged down in details.

What does the speaker mean by transwoman, what does the speaker mean by transsexual, what does the speaker mean by woman only space, what does the speaker mean by gender, the list is endless. But everybody understands what is meant by the word penis and everybody does understand why some woman showering at the gym before going to the next activity, would object to penises in her shower.

Every time I see someone making this overly complicated, I just want to fucking scream.

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