Tasmania is set to become the first state to remove the sex of a child from birth certificates

[Bonions]

This is being framed as a win for transgender people. I’m perplexed as to how this won’t affect stats, planning services for the population etc

(It’s behind a paywall)

amp.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/state-politics/tasmania-on-verge-of-removing-gender-from-birth-certificates/news-story/22e558f7dea37b3d2723036f9e628ee2

I believe the Yogyakarta Principles +10 also call for the removal of sex from the birth certificate.

It's interesting to see what other nations put on their certificates (the US puts 'race', which seems extraordinary to me). The govt. certainly need to know what sex we are for statistical purposes, but I do wonder if that would be the next step as we know TRAs, once given an inch will take many miles. I don't know where I stand on this, as my birth cert is useless to me, being in another name. I'm not even sure where it is.

Without a birth certificate how the hell am I supposed to know what sex this is?

"Self identification applies to other protected characteristics, including DISABILITY"

WATF?

This is extremely concerning

Obviously it is a terrible idea for all the reasons cited by pp's.

However,looking on the bright side won't this literally erase trans? How can anyone change sex if they didn't have one to start with? Gets rid of all the bother of self I D, GRC, all of it. Surely can't be what tra's want? They are always complaining about being erased etc. This will do it in one fell swoop. No more sex "coercively" assigned at birth. How would it be possible to have gender dysphoria? It will surely put a few dodgy doctors out of business along with a lucrative sales line for big pharma. Always a silver lining or at least an unintended consequence, assuming this isn't part of a wider plan.


The logical conclusion of this is that an adult male could self ID as female, amd get a GRC based on that self ID? And a natal female would not do that, because why the fuck would you, if it’s plainly obvious to you and everyone else that you’re female. So you have a scenario where a male with a male body is a documented, official, provable woman, and someone born with a vagina is not. Quite an attractive win for some.

There was no need for a question mark in that sentence, I was clearly thinking it in an Australian accent.

open article here:
(extract)
Tasmania looks set to become the first Australian state to stop documenting a child’s sex on birth certificates, in a move that has attracted strong opinions on both sides of the fence.

According to The Australian the state’s lower house is expected to vote on the matter next month, when it is raised in parliament as an amendment to a bill calling for trans people to no longer have to divorce before they can change their gender on official documents.

If passed, it would be the first time any Australian authority has removed the need to state a baby’s gender on their official birth certificate, however their gender would still be recorded by the registrar and on all medical records.

Transgender activist Martine Delaney told the newspaper that removing gender from birth certificates would cause no harm. She said: “It would be the first in this country, although not the first in the world, and an excellent statement by Tasmania to say ‘We have the need to do this and we will not wait for other states to lead’.

“It is not doing away with gender. That information would still be recorded by the registrar and medical records in the hospital. It just simply wouldn’t be displayed on the birth certificate.” (continues)

startsat60.com/news/politics/tasmania-vote-remove-childs-gender-birth-certificate-transgender?fbclid=IwAR1x86N6RboaeJzTSFTctPfzm7zsChEOHnpFn4dEta4eR-41Xesb-iEY2vQ

Tasmania only decriminalised homosexuality in 1997. Hannah Gadsby (comedian - her show Nanette is on Netflix) spoke about her difficulties growing up there as a lesbian.

The depressing thing is that when MP's vote most of them will have done little to no research into the matter and certainly won't have given a moments thought to the dangers and disadvantages. They'll do what looks woke, or what their mates or their party are doing. Lack of critical thinking is the norm sadly.

Is there much point documenting sex/gender on documentation nowadays?

What was the purpose of having a little m/f on documents anyway?

Remove it, and you remove the need for GRC.

Safeguarding rarely involves checking the m/f status on documents anyway, does it?

My birth certificate doesn't name my parents. Parental names are on mt kids BC's but under "parents names" no indication of which is mother and which is father.

If it's not pertinent information. Why include it?

Is having an m or f on official documents like birth certificates, drivers licenses or passports pertinent?

I think it's better to remove.it altogether than have people able to change it from m to f or vice versa.

(hello btw, I lurk sometimes but joined up today)

What’s the point of a birth certificate?

Other than recording that a birth has actually happened I’d have thought the next most important thing, for statistical purposes at least, is the sex of the child.

After all, the name of the child is largely irrelevant. They can change it at any time and for statistical purposes knowing how many kids are called Megan this year is pretty useless. That’s the kind of info you might want to know for a pub quiz but it’s useless when allocating educational or medical resources.

If it’s just a record of someone’s unique ID for tax or other administrative purposes then a national insurance number or the Australian equivalent would do.

Excellent, I hear that before the invention of birth certificates, nobody really knew what sex was and whether anyone was male or female. Of course it made reproduction a bit haphazard as it was impossible to tell which humans could impregnate which other humans, but the upside was that sexism didn't exist.

What’s the point of a birth certificate?

Mainly to let state know you existed.

It does records parents - if not on certificate though mine does in the actal register - which can convey citizenship for many countires now. In some counties the inheritance is different dependent on whether it's the father or mother who has that countries citizenship.

If you're considered a US citizen though parentage it has tax implication even if you've never been to US.

PurpleOva
Do you think it is ever important to know what sex someone is?

Safeguarding rarely involves checking the m/f status on documents anyway, does it?

Really? When you're employing a PE teacher to supervise children in changing rooms, do you think the sex of the teacher is important?

When you're patted down at the airport, do you think the sex of the person doing that is important?

What’s the point of recording sex on the birth certificate?

Without doing so, you can’t count how many people of each sex there are
You don’t have the fundamental data marker that allows you to measure and compare outcomes:
Lifespan
Occurrence of illness
Outcome of medical treatment
Educational outcomes
Criminality
Occupation and employment
Income
Incidence of crime (as a victim)

And if you can’t measure and compare these, you can’t tell if there is inequality, you can’t address it, and you can’t tell if or when you’ve overcome it. Without the words and numbers to define and count a group, there is no group. Unless you really believe that discrimination against and oppression of women has gone forever, that matters. Of course if you don’t care or it would suit you to pretend that it has gone away forever, it’s ideal.

"Who do you think you are" and the work of genealogists is going to be well nigh impossible in the future. (Taking into account things like surrogacy etc here as well).

The ability to have a birth certificate is still a major UNICEF campaign because it's the gateway to human rights. > 30% of the world does not have ready access to birth registration and this facilitates various abuses, especially on particular continents where birth registration is limited.

I can't find a different link at present but this is a decent overview of some of the issues:

According to UNICEF, only 1 in 3 children under 5 have a birth certificate. A birth certificate is a human right. A birth certificate provides the means to be counted and to protect other crucial human rights, especially for women and girls. A birth certificate is somewhat of a gateway human right.

.......

neonatal mortality remains an urgent crisis in global health. Without a birth certificate, we do not have accurate newborn mortality data to identify trends and improve newborn health. Without proper death records, it is impossible to have accurate recordings of maternal or neonatal mortality. Medically, we need this information to improve global and community public health.

Intimately connected to maternal mortality is the prevalence of child marriage. 1 in 9 girls marry before age 15 with severe consequences

catholicmoraltheology.com/a-birth-certificate-is-a-human-right/

I wrote at some length about this in my submission to the GRA consultation as I feel that we're not secure enough in our global responsibilities for meeting social, economic, and public health targets to be able to be so cavalier about editing birth certificates and altering birth records.

Without doing so, you can’t count how many people of each sex there are

Hospitals will still record that data - I image schools and other institutions will as well - so the data will still exits and I suspect public bodies would have access.

Though it might be a concern that this data may not be as publically avavalible as previously – depends on the local information laws around data sharing I suppose.

When patted down at the airport, nobody checks my passport. I assume I could request a different officer if I felt uncomfortable.

When employing a teacher or anybody looking after children, checks are made. The sex of the person could and presumably is recorded on those records.

I can't really see any useful reason for it to be recorded on your own personal paperwork. It will be recorded on your medical files and police records and anywhere else where your biological sex matters. It will be recorded for statistics.

On my personal ID? I don't see the need. And personally prefer the idea of it not being included, than being able to be changed.

Whether it's recorded and where it's recorded are less of a concern to me than the outcomes. But that seems to be besides the point for those pushing for changes.

I want answers to how this, self-ID etc - whatever, wherever, whenever the changes are made - will reduce the violence against women. Do we suddenly not have women being raped, but "people"?

I'm jealous of the people who feel so free to make administrative changes with no understanding of the implications. I'm about to take my kids swimming. Unisex changing rooms with cubicles that aren't floor to ceiling (not in U.K.). EVERY SINGLE time I went swimming as a teenager I had boys perving on me. Every fucking time. They'd get changed in the women's changing rooms because "it was safer", essentially making them unisex. Heads under cubicles, heads over them. Every bloody time. Were they doing to because I was a person? No, they'd figured out that my sex was the opposite to theirs and wanted to watch. I had no recourse then.

So now I'm sitting with panic rising, trying to calm it with a cup of tea, because my kids really want to go to the pool and I've put it off for a few days. Nobody protected my rights then (and peeping toms were not the worst that happened to me) and 30 years later it's still impacting me.

And these fuckwits don't care. They see me and my children as collateral damage. And worse still, they're actively removing protections for my daughter. And son.

Is the whole of society going to be unisex now?

I don't agree with bigotry, oppression, barriers to healthcare etc. It seems all those things are not an issue though when they apply to women..which they obviously don't, because we are ceasing to exist.

I do wonder if it's not on birth certificates if it then won't be on passports? Could make for some interesting border control situations in less "woke" countries.

It appears to be only the Greens who are pushing this. I wouldn't say that the Tasmanian Government is "set" to do anything. It's just one party pushing their own agenda.

I do wonder if it's not on birth certificates if it then won't be on passports? Could make for some interesting border control situations in less "woke" countries.

All countries have an understanding of sex.

Trans-ideology is not universal.

Passports are important documents intended for international travel (not identity affirmation) and there are significant security and safety reasons why sex should be clearly stated.

I do wonder if it's not on birth certificates if it then won't be on passports? Could make for some interesting border control situations in less "woke" countries.

Yes. That was what I was alluding to in my reply to PurpleOva, who seems to have completely missed my point.

So, PurpleOva, in your new 'no sex on documents' world, how would anyone know what sex a teacher was if it wasn't on any of their official documentation?

I can't really see any useful reason for it to be recorded on your own personal paperwork. It will be recorded on your medical files and police records and anywhere else where your biological sex matters. It will be recorded for statistics.

If it's not on any of your personal paperwork, how will it get onto your medical files? Or the police records? Or the statistics? If nobody has ever recorded your sex, there is no record of it to be transferred to other parties' records.