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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Daughter is being told people are born trans..

50 replies

Swearymum83 · 22/10/2018 11:54

My daughter (12) who I am encouraging to be gender critical was being told by a friend of hers today that some people are born trans. She referred to Jaz Jennings as an example. I'm very passionate about protecting the rights of women and girls and aim to keep my own children away from the influence of t activists, so it disturbs me that kids at her school are preaching this rubbish.

It was a proud moment for me though, when my daughter told me she disagreed with her friend and asked her 'what does it mean to be born trans?' Of course, her friend couldn't answer her.

OP posts:
Childrenofthestones · 22/10/2018 12:10

People repeat the shit they've been told but as soon as they are challenged, unless they are the tiny number of activists steeped in this field, flounder and often start name calling and abuse.
Funny enough the NPC meme offending so many in the USA pretty much fits like a shoe.

selfidentifyinggiraffe · 22/10/2018 12:16

Unless they discover this to be true... like how studies are potentially showing with homosexuality I don't accept it and won't teach my kids that

But even if they do.... it doesn't really change the fact that you cannot change sex

And we aren't telling 5 year olds that they might be gay (because it would be completely not age appropriate to discuss their sexuality with a 5 year old)

I don't think we should be discussing if small children might be trans with them either.

nauticant · 22/10/2018 12:18

I wonder whether some people are born with gender dysphoria in-built in some way so that transsexuals could be said to be "born trans". In the absence of confirmation either way, I can accept that might be true. That might account for 5000ish trans people.

But the real issue is, what about the other 495,000?

Manderleyagain · 22/10/2018 12:40

But even then if the sex stereotypes were not to pervasive and oppositional how would gender dysphoria present itself?

Original poster
Swearymum83 · 22/10/2018 12:43

@Manderleyagain - this is what I keep wondering??

OP posts:
Original poster
Swearymum83 · 22/10/2018 12:48

@Childrenofthestones - I had to look up the box meme, it's a hoot!

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ResistanceIsNecessary · 22/10/2018 12:57

You can't be 'born trans' as it's a nonsensical argument. Breaking it down logically: 'Trans' is short for 'transition'. Ergo, how can one be born as a transitioned (or wanting to transition) person?

If evidence of gender dysphoria is present in early life, then there is potentially an argument to say that one could be born with gender dysphoria. However I am not sure how this would align to the current views that dysphoria should not be treated as a MH condition.

transdimensional · 22/10/2018 12:59

There would be nothing wrong with telling a small child that men sometimes marry men, and women women, or that they might someday marry a man or a woman.
So in that sense, discussing LGB with kids of any age is harmless.
However, to tell a small child that they might decide they had been born in the wrong body... That would be dangerous, putting an idea like that out there, with all the possible future medicalised consequences, when genuine dysphoria is vanishingly rare.

Trinity1976 · 22/10/2018 13:22

You can't be 'born trans' as it's a nonsensical argument. Breaking it down logically: 'Trans' is short for 'transition'. Ergo, how can one be born as a transitioned (or wanting to transition) person?

Trans is not short for transition. "Trans" in the context of 'transgender' means opposite. That is, your 'innate gender identity' (which I don't believe is a real thing) is the opposite to your biological sex.

The fact that we often talk about transitioning when talking about trans people is just a coincidence.

AspieAndProud · 22/10/2018 13:34

I’d make an analogy with language.

Humans are born with an innate capacity for language just as we are born into a particular sex.

Specific languages, on the other hand, are socially constructed. They are the product of history and geography, invasions and phonetic evolution.

There is no innate ‘English’ or ‘German’ or ‘French’. You pick up from your environment - just as you pick up gender stereotypes.

Trans ideology is analogous to saying English or German are innate and, through some weird accident of birth, it is possible to be born a German speaker to English parents.

Original poster
Swearymum83 · 22/10/2018 13:36

Meant to say *npc meme... 🤦‍♀️

OP posts:
Original poster
Swearymum83 · 22/10/2018 13:38

@ResistanceIsNecessary - I agree. Although I don't believe there is any such thing as trans in the first place. I believe gender dysphoria exists as a mental illness but not that babies are 'born with it'.

OP posts:
Lacypants · 22/10/2018 13:38

Does that mean that being trans is the equivalent of speaking English with a really bad German accent and everyone has to pretend you are speaking German even though it's blatantly obvious you are speaking English and also have no clue whatsoever about German?

Original poster
Swearymum83 · 22/10/2018 13:38

@AspieAndProud - that's great! Thank you.

OP posts:
QuietContraryMary · 22/10/2018 13:43

"The fact that we often talk about transitioning when talking about trans people is just a coincidence."

Well not exactly:

  • transvestite - coined 1910 by Magnus Hirschfeld meaning 'cross-dress'
  • transsexual - coined 1923 by Hirschfeld to mean an extreme form of transvestite where there is a desire to change sex
  • gender identity - coined 1955 by John Money in order to experiment on the genitals of children - he 'corrected' genitals and expected gender identity to follow suit as a socialised concept
  • transgender - coined 1965 following Money by John F Oliven as the 'urge for gender (‘sex’) change.' Subsequently the meaning has changed.
AspieAndProud · 22/10/2018 13:48

Does that mean that being trans is the equivalent of speaking English with a really bad German accent and everyone has to pretend you are speaking German even though it's blatantly obvious you are speaking English and also have no clue whatsoever about German?

Trans is like an episode of Allo Allo

‘I was pissing by the door, when I heard two shats. You are holding in your hand a smoking goon; you are clearly the guilty potty.’

AspieAndProud · 22/10/2018 13:53

Probably just a coincidence that the number of genders has increased alongside made-up languages like Klingon, Na’avi and Dothraki.

Harmless hobbies in themselves, but nobody should be forced into participating in your cosplay.

raisinsraisins · 22/10/2018 14:07

If we had an equal society where men and women share childcare, men and woman wear unisex clothing and have long or short hair, I wonder how many people would be transgender? The only difference between the sexes would then be the body you are born with, and women having periods, pregnancy etc.

Would men want to be women purely on this basis? And would teenage girls want to transition to become men if there was little change to the life they would lead?

AspieAndProud · 22/10/2018 14:12

Do transwomen take up traditional gender roles when it comes to childcare? Do they care more for their elderly parents? Do they do more of the housework? Or is it just the flouncing around in frocks and make-up while making bitchy comments they think constitutes womanhood?

GenderApostate · 22/10/2018 16:08

The worlds biggest proposed study on whether being Trans has a Genetic basis has been quietly dropped. It was reported on Reuters some 15 months ago but there has been nothing since and when I’ve researched the scientists involved, nothing has come to light under their current work. Perhaps it was starting to give answers that certain quarters don’t want to go public? I can’t believe they wouldn’t have been able to secure funding for it 🙄

Manderleyagain · 22/10/2018 17:09

Genderapostate - do you have details of the study? If the study was started they must have already had funding for it?

TheElementsSong · 22/10/2018 17:36

Trans ideology is analogous to saying English or German are innate and, through some weird accident of birth, it is possible to be born a German speaker to English parents.

Does that mean that being trans is the equivalent of speaking English with a really bad German accent and everyone has to pretend you are speaking German even though it's blatantly obvious you are speaking English and also have no clue whatsoever about German?

I love these!

GenderApostate · 22/10/2018 18:04

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKBN1AJ0F0
I’ve tried looking at the people/institutes involved but have come up empty, I am not a scientist however so might not be searching in the right places Grin

anniehm · 22/10/2018 18:20

If you watch the jazz Jennings programme it's pretty convincing - she was really young. BUT it's highly unusual, our trans friend has just decided she is a girl after all (three years requesting to be called he). I'm a bit skeptics but remember when homosexuality was treated as a mental disorder

BlackForestCake · 22/10/2018 19:03

What has been done to poor Jazz is heartbreaking.

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