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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

'Rapid-onset gender dysphoria' is a poisonous lie used to discredit trans people' guardian article

56 replies

Bespin · 22/10/2018 06:26

amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/oct/22/rapid-onset-gender-dysphoria-is-a-poisonous-lie-used-to-discredit-trans-people?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Tweet&__twitter_impression=true

OP posts:
ILuvBirdsEye · 22/10/2018 06:36

Amazing how people always know other people's identity is wrong if it doesn't tow the current party line.

deepwatersolo · 22/10/2018 06:48

Trevor Phillip tells it like it is. Great article. Thanks Ereshkigal. As for the ‚ROGD does not exist‘ article: concluding that without a scientific study that demonstrates it, is anti-science. How narcissist must people be that they declare something impossible, and move heaven and earth to prevent scientists from looking into whether it is possible, just because it was not their personal experience?
That demonstrates better than anything else that we are dealing with a mental pathology when it comes to the TRA bubble, a pathology that sure as hell must not dictate policies, no matter how often they threaten suicide.

BertrandRussell · 22/10/2018 06:52

I don't know whether ROGT is real or not. But I do know that, considering other things that occur in clusters among teenagers-self harm, suicide, eating disorders, being a Goth- it seems utterly insane not to acknowledge the possibility and investigate further. If only to rule it out.

Ereshkigal · 22/10/2018 06:55

it seems utterly insane not to acknowledge the possibility and investigate further. If only to rule it out.

Indeed. It's almost like there is an agenda somewhere.

IdaBWells · 22/10/2018 07:00

ROGD is a serious condition as ultimately followed to it’s logical conclusion young women have their breasts removed and a penis constructed where a large piece of their flesh from their forearm (usually) is used to create it. If you google the photos showing how much of their flesh is used it is truly horrifying. This is so radical, to desperately want to change a perfectly healthy body that it needs to be examined very carefully.

The trans lobby may be in denial but it is very clear to anyone looking dispassionately at raw data that there has been an enormous increase in teenage girls and young women suddenly wanting to become men after showing no signs of unhappiness with their sex/gender as a child. ROGD has already been the focus of a study by a professor at Brown University in the USA (a member of the Ivy League). She of course has come under heavy criticism and attack because it is a tenant of the transactivist ideology that they actually resist and prevent meaningful scientific study of trans issues.

NotBadConsidering · 22/10/2018 07:03

Liz Duck-Chong is a writer, sexual health nerd, podcast host and filmmaker.

Well of course she’s a medical expert; she makes podcasts after all. Wink

I find the lack of acknowledgement of a huge jump in the number of referrals to GIDS quite insulting, but not quite as insulting as the suggestion that the parents of these children just weren’t paying enough attention.

GCAcademic · 22/10/2018 07:10

They are desperate now because the government has said it's concerned about this, and academics have said they're being harassed in order to prevent research.

R0wantrees · 22/10/2018 07:22

The World Professional Association for Transgender Health released a statement on the phenomenon, stating: “The term ‘rapid-onset gender dysphoria (ROGD)’ is not a medical entity recognised by any major professional association ... therefore, it constitutes nothing more than an acronym created to describe a proposed clinical phenomenon that may or may not warrant further peer-reviewed scientific investigation.”

The author of the Guardian article and others who have seized on the statement might do well to consider what is actually being said here.

This statement doesn't mean that the patterns described in the term 'ROGD' don't exist with someyoung people, it means that it is not recognised yet as a medical entity and as the statement concludes more scientific study may be needed.

Every medical entity now recognised, went through this process of observation, hypothesis, research, testing, understanding and officially describing and naming.

The government have already announced an investigation into the treatment of rapidly increasing numbers of young people.

In my opinion, anyone; whether individual, charity or organisation intent on preventing thorough informed professional investigation into something which may affect vulnerable children and young people profoundly should be viewed with suspicion.

James Kirkup Spectator: 'Trans rights have gone wrong
The new gender orthodoxy allows no room for dissent'
(extract)
"It is unsurprising that schools want guidance on how to deal with children describing themselves as transgender, since more and more seem to be doing so.

Why? Is it about tolerance: as society becomes more understanding, more trans people feel able to ‘come out’? Could the internet be accelerating ‘social contagion’, where the idea of being transgender spreads rapidly?

What explains the disproportionate number of girls (child ‘assigned female at birth’, to use the approved term) who are starting a journey that can lead to hormone treatment, then binding and ultimately removing their breasts? Is it possible that this is simply part of a wider crisis of mental health among girls?

I don’t know, and neither do the doctors and scientists who study this issue. If you talk to the clinicians at the Tavistock Clinic in London, the NHS centre for the treatment of gender-variant children, they’ll tell you that all the factors I mentioned may be at work, but the evidence base is still incomplete, that they need more time and data before offering explanations. (They’ll also tell you that quite a lot of the children referred to them as transgender will in time desist – although this is not a term the clinic would use – and decide to live in their original gender.)

The government now intends to commission research into all this. You might think that sounds sensible and mundane. You would be wrong.

According to Tara Hewitt, founder of the Trans Equality Legal Initiative (TELI), prominent campaigner for transgender rights and an adviser to numerous public bodies including the NHS, the proposed research is ‘absurd and offensive’. The project should be ‘dropped in the bin — it’s simply not an inquiry that needs to happen,’ Hewitt reckons.

This is the quintessential trans-rights response to scrutiny: even looking for facts about children’s welfare is transphobic. Just accept that trans girls are girls and trans women are women. End of debate" (continues)
www.spectator.co.uk/2018/10/trans-rights-have-gone-wrong/

KatVonGulag · 22/10/2018 07:33

Oh it exists alright. Go into secondary schools and you'd see. Scary that research is being suppressed. It's almost as if they don't care if children are pushed down an incorrect treatment pathway.

IdaBWells · 22/10/2018 07:33

What is also offensive, dangerous and becomes a safeguarding issue again is how parents are so quickly dismissed. Parents who clearly want the best for their children and are very concerned and worried about their health and suffering are treated as if they are an untrustworthy source of information. I know of no other area of pediatric medicine where the concerns of 100s of parents would be so easily dismissed. What has also been established by the data that has been collected around the world on "trans" kids is that as a cohort they already are diagnosed with depression, anxiety, autism, eating disorders, ADHD and are affected by trauma and social issues such as bullying at much higher rates than their peers before they begin transitioning. So these girls deserve our care, attention and serious study before we drug them and medicate them into a new, permanent identity.

GCAcademic · 22/10/2018 07:40

Speech by Michele Moore to WPUK which discusses ROGD and sidelining of parents:

scepticalwoman · 22/10/2018 07:45

Safeguarding, safeguarding, safeguarding. Rinse and repeat.

The reprehensible and deliberate targeting of children.

AnchorMum · 22/10/2018 07:50

As a parent of a rapidly transed child I know ROGD exists. And I'm far from alone.

Danglingmod · 22/10/2018 07:54

Anyone who works in a secondary school knows it too, AnchorMum.

bathshebaeverbusy · 22/10/2018 08:04

I'm a parent of an ROGD child too. NO indications whatsoever until age 14.
What she does have is a diagnosis of PTSD and the gender identity is treated as a defence mechanism - a way of coping with stuff that happened to her.
With therapy - the need to project onto that identity is diminishing - but we are caught up in the whole trans thing because " unless we affirm, she will commit suicide ". Her school made the whole thing worse.
She identifies as male at school - less rigidly now. It is difficult and potentially shaming for her to change identity again.

KatVonGulag · 22/10/2018 08:10

Sending hugs to all the ROGD mums here. Flowers

AnchorMum · 22/10/2018 08:11

bathshebaeverbusy I'm so sorry to hear this Thanks It's like an octopus that gets its tentacles around anything where there is a vulnerability. Sending hugs.

howlsmovingcastle84 · 22/10/2018 08:12

Rapid-onset gender dysphoria' is a poisonous lie used to discredit trans people

Does anyone else see a headline like that and think 'OOOkkkk...'(back away slowly)? Do they think this is good journalism??

hellandhairnets · 22/10/2018 08:13

Discrediting ROGD publicly was one of the plans of attack mentioned at the We're Still Here conference Harpy went to.

I hope there is some form of rebuttal and questions in the press for every one of the claims made on this issue from now on.

LangCleg · 22/10/2018 08:16

In my opinion, anyone; whether individual, charity or organisation intent on preventing thorough informed professional investigation into something which may affect vulnerable children and young people profoundly should be viewed with suspicion.

Yes. And, I'm sorry to say, I hope that I don't have to include you in that Bespin, since you're always going on about your "work" with gender-questioning children.

As someone who does have contact with vulnerable minors, I hope you are posting this article from a critical viewpoint. What R0wantrees says above is very, very important.

Gncq · 22/10/2018 08:17

Anchorman, bathshebaeverbusy

I wonder if it's an idea to start a thread, like the trans widows one, for ROGD mums. An opportunity to share experiences, offer advice and mobilise.
Maybe in chat topic? Or here?

Does anyone think that's a good idea?

Gncq · 22/10/2018 08:18

I was meant you put flowers after your names Flowers

QuentinWinters · 22/10/2018 08:20

That ROGD article is the biggest load of claptrap and I'm surprised the Guardian published it.
The worst bit was where taking puberty blockers was compared with sports:
Upon the onset of puberty, puberty blockers may be introduced to slow the effects of the hormones the body is itself creating but the potential harm of this process is minimal, and the trans person in question remains under the care and monitoring of a medical professional. By comparison, a 2015 US study found that 4.3% of people 18 and below visit the emergency room for sport-related injuries. This is not at all to say that we should demonise youth sport but rather that we often allow kids to do things that involve risks simply because they want to.

Sport being a thing that enables people to be fit and healthy, with some usually treatable injury risk. Puberty blockers being a thing that enables life long medicalisation, with certainty of sterility. Yep, just the same Angry

gendercritter · 22/10/2018 08:22

I know of no other area of pediatric medicine where the concerns of 100s of parents would be so easily dismissed

I'm afraid I do. I have M.E. it's a common occurence that children with certain chronic health conditions are bullied, dismissed and diagnosed with something resembling hysteria even today. Most people just aren't aware how arrogant many doctors are. M.E patients (some of them young children who are seriously ill) are just left to rot despite parents pleading for research and help. I have a lot of stories I could tell.

Anyway, that's by the by. I think this article is terrible. Comparing transing a child and mutilating them with the risks a child is open to if they play sports is disgusting. A broken leg from playing football is nothing like giving a child puberty blockers and removing their breasts when they turn 18. I can't believe saying that giving blockers is safe is allowed to stand, either.

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