Simply Why

[Samsparrow]

Delurking normally avoid this page, but this concerns me,

www.cheshire-live.co.uk/news/chester-cheshire-news/chester-mum-pleads-guilty-assaulting-15302384

Which part concerns you, what did you want to discuss?

Yes, this concerns me too. Shouting abuse and assaulting transwomen is unacceptable, and doing so because of their transgender status aggravates the crime.

But what about the first words she spoke ... that is a man ?

How does that statement fit in with this matter? And why was it reported in that way?

Dare, a mum-of-three, had been drinking throughout the afternoon on her own and had no recollection of the incident taking place, the court heard.

Dare penned a letter to the victims stating her regret of the incident and described her own actions as 'horrendous' after being shown the CCTV footage, her solicitor explained.

If that's accurate, I should think the explanation is right there.

How does that statement fit in with this matter? And why was it reported in that way?

Presumably it is the evidence that aggravated the harassment and assault to a hate crime, indicating it occured because the perpetrator perceived them as having changed sex/gender (which is the aggravating criteria in law and used interchangeably).

Analogously, there is no problem in referring to someone being black, doing so while shouting abuse would indicate your motivation in the crime.

I don't have problem with 'hate crime' being a reason to apply stricter sentences for particular crimes which tend to target vulnerable groups- I would cheerfully see people harassing disabled people getting much longer sentences because of the power differential.

I have real problem with 'hate crime' elevating something which is merely rude to the status of a crime.

Regardless, this: Shouting abuse and assaulting transwomen is unacceptable

Genuine transphobia like this is deplorable and I do like the way that when views like this are (occasionally) expressed on FWR, they get jumped on quickly. You don't find that on more male dominated fora.

Yes. A woman drunkenly assaulted someone and has been punished by the courts and issued a full apology.

As you normally avoid this page, I'm wondering why you thought this was a relevant link for FWR? Or was that the point of your title?

I find a lot of things reported in that paper very concerning.

That same page has an 'in the courts' bar where 4 men have been convicted.
One of slashing his friend's face with a knife,

One of aggressive theft from a teenager

One of being a paedophile who abused children (he is only 20 so not much more than child himself so yes children do harm other children)

One of frenziedly attacking and murdering his female partner.

Oh another 'in the courts' bar has a violent male robber, a male burglar armed with a screwdriver, a drunk male car thief who broke a policeman's jaw, and a man who groomed and raped a schoolgirl.

Oh and the other story of a grandfather who pleaded guilty to having images of child abuse which were found in his home by a workman, and nearly missed by police.

I can hardly wait for the day that any of those men decide that they are women. I would probably point out that they are men. Though I would not drunkenly abuse them.

But what about the first words she spoke ... that is a man ?

That isn't exactly what she said. It was reported as What is that? That is a man

Shouting what is that? emphasises the intention to insult.

I'm not sure what the OP is concerned about- a very drunk , rude, aggressive and violent woman was dealt with in a reasonable manner by a court.

I might be concerned about the welfare of this woman's 3 children.

I find a lot of things reported in that paper very concerning

Yes me too.

Oh, wingwarbler, you really should join forces with Tommy Robinson and be done with it. Persistently branding a marginalised group of people as violent criminals is his "thing" also.

PS By "thing", I don't mean "penis". I know this board is very anti-penis. Quite ironic, since the average biological mum has a 50-50 chance of gestating and giving birth to a penis-owner. Per pregnancy.

Yes, abusing and assaulting people is what transphobia is. The word has been really diluted by those applying it to anyone who recognises the existence of biology.
Glad she has apologised and the sentence seems appropriate.

I know this board is very anti-penis.

Many of us love penis which combined with vagina is mostly how the 'mum' bit comes about.

jelly.

Lol, jelly. Too true.

And nah, definitely not anti-penis as a rule. As a straight woman I've always been rather fond.

But only when I've got a choice about them being there and which ones.

Anyway, the case in the article looks like a classic case of bog-standard transphobia to me. Screaming insults at strangers while drunk generally does count as some sort of abuse.

It's got nothing to do with the wider issues we've been discussing here.

I don't think anyone who posts regularly on here agrees with or would do anything but condemn outright transphobia. Abusing anyone on the basis of who or what they are is wrong and is correctly punished.

Having an opinion about what constitutes the definition of a woman and who should be entitled to sex-related legal protections = not transphobia, however.

HTH.

Oh, wingwarbler, you really should join forces with Tommy Robinson and be done with it. Persistently branding a marginalised group of people as violent criminals is his "thing" also

What marginalised group is this?

I am exclusively attracted to men with penises too so not anti them at all, except when they are acting abusively or unpleasantly.

I don't really understand the point of this OP?

That is a report on a transphobic attack which was dealt with by the courts.

What has it got to do with wanting to protect female rights and spaces?

Ah, yes, those poor marginalized males wingwarbler referenced in their post. Not sure even Tommy Robinson would be too off the mark calling violent criminals, er... violent criminals.

I know this board is very anti-penis.

I'm not anti penis. I like penis, my DH has a penis.

But, when it comes to penis, I say when, I say where and I say how. Which is how it should be for every woman wherever she is.

I do like the way that when views like this are (occasionally) expressed on FWR, they get jumped on quickly. You don't find that on more male dominated fora.

I'd wager that the reason for that is that (rightly or wrongly) this place has a reputation for being unfriendly to trans and also because there are allegedly legions of TRAs lurking in wait of the perfect screenshot to post on Twitter.

Men don't really discuss trans issues very widely IME.

I'd wager that the reason for that is that (rightly or wrongly) this place has a reputation for being unfriendly to trans and also because there are allegedly legions of TRAs lurking in wait of the perfect screenshot to post on Twitter.

Men don't really discuss trans issues very widely IME.

There is truth to both those statements, and obviously MN is a long way from some homogeneous hive mind, but as long as I've been here bigotry has been aggressively challenged (sometimes to the detriment of free speech).

If you doubt that other websites are much worse look at any trans-mentioning thread on twitter (not a GRA one, just any attention grabbing article). The horrendous comments you get are not coming from feminists and have been there long before the GRA was a thing.

OP, you need to use more words.

Vile behaviour from the woman and of course it's transphobic. It sounds like she herself agrees and she's ashamed, as well she ought to be.

Were you expecting anyone on Mumsnet to say anything different, Op? You don't know us very well if so.
Do you mean that you're personally concerned with the case? I hope you weren't one of the unfortunate trans women that was abused.