Strange reaction to "people can't change their biological sex"

[ShotsFired]

I just posted about a conversation I had with Jenny. During that conversation, a third party - 'Bill' - was in the vicinity but not directly part of it. What happened really shocked me.

At the point where Jenny and I were casually discussing and agreeing that no human could physically change their biological sex (but people were free to live and present how they liked blah blah), Bill suddenly started crying and said he thought these comments were hate speech and he couldn't bear to stay and listen. And then packed up his things and left the venue.

Bill is an adult man in a professional job with normal adult commitments etc (so not a tumblr addicted teen) and the fact he was upset to the point of immediate tears by our conversation above was the strange thing. I believe (looking back) he may have some trans friends, but even so, that reaction was completely OTT.

I believe it shows how the trans community has brainwashed its followers to believe that anything that isn't immediate and 100% fulsome support of every single word uttered, is hateful and harmful. Yet that propaganda is what is hateful and harmful, causing grievous effects to the believers when established facts are stated and personal opinions (by and about the class of people affected) are aired in a casual conversation. This strange bubble they are putting people in is only leading to pain when the real world inevitably bumps up against it.

that is very bizarre.

I think people seem to have been duped into thinking that the campaign against self ID means that we are all in favour of strict gender roles and that people wont be allowed to be trans anymore if it doesnt get amended

Bill could be trans but not out and hyper-sensitive to the issues as a result. He may have misinterpreted your conversation, misheard etc. I'd have a follow up chat with him to check what he thought he heard.

I'm curious, adult covers a wide range from 19 upwards. What age is he?

I'd assume Bill was either transitioning himself, having a mental health crisis or has a child who was transitioning based off his reaction.

Watch out for a visit from HR.

Bill sounds like he's not fit to be working at the moment.

Your right to free speech.
His right to be offended.
His choice to leave.

Hate speech my arse.

Being confronted with one's cognitive dissonance is upsetting. Bill is upset because at some level he knows what he believes is bullshit. If everyone is pretending to believe it, he feels ok but when someone lays out the facts calmly he knows it's true but can't accept it.

Branleuse I think people seem to have been duped into thinking that the campaign against self ID means that we are all in favour of strict gender roles and that people wont be allowed to be trans anymore if it doesnt get amended

I think you may be right. But to start crying because I said biology is biology was so weird. If I'd been saying "I don't believe in trans I think it's a sham" (or whatever) then I could understand a reaction. But I would at very least expect a "I don't agree with you, please don't speak that way when I am around" type thing, if they didn't want to actually discuss their own POV. Or just remove themselves. But tears and walking out about a conversation they were not even part of?

TheDuckSaysMoo Bill could be trans but not out and hyper-sensitive to the issues as a result. He may have misinterpreted your conversation, misheard etc. I'd have a follow up chat with him to check what he thought he heard.

I did think about that. I have enough reasons to believe that is not the case for him, but for people in his life. Either way, we have been in contact since about other things and we are ok. He did hear me clearly because as part of his comment he repeated what I'd said. I don't think there is anything to gain from bringing it up again.

I would think that was more of a personal issue-related response, tbh. It might not even be related to trans matters; unexpected and disproportionate emotional reactions can be symptomatic of stress, depression, disorientation etc. If Bill was my close friend, I'd want to follow up and see if he was okay.

I think the more cultish response would've been for him to interrupt your conversation, explain why you're wrong, then get angry and/or begin emotional blackmail if you didn't immediately apologise and retract.

My guess is Bill is a potential transitioner. We lost touch with very good friends when we moved north - I supported to the wife during her pregnancy and marriage woes, but not once was it ever hinted at that the husband was a crossdresser. However, post divorce, in his 40s, he started going into work dressed as a woman, (and then reverted back to being a man a couple of years later apparently.)

So I'd be careful what you say to him as it might be a secret he's not ready to share.

It's st timers like this that I like to recall the words of Stephen Fry:

“It's now very common to hear people say, 'I'm rather offended by that.' As if that gives them certain rights. It's actually nothing more... than a whine. 'I find that offensive.' It has no meaning; it has no purpose; it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. 'I am offended by that.' Well, so fucking what."

'at times' (good grief, I can't type for toffee)..

What Flora said. I think it's the cog. diss.

Bill is mid-30s, single, no children.

Even if my knowledge of him is wildly wrong and he IS transitioning, his reaction was still way, way OTT and completely out of character.

To have that severe a reaction to an opinion that I didn't believe somebody could change their physical sex (and it was quite specifically worded) does not seem to be someone mentally strong enough to undertake an entire change of life and with it the psychological impact that brings. So whatever way you look at it, something is not right here.

Funny how so few men get moved to tears by misogyny or violence against women and kids. 

Bill sounds unwell and vulnerable. He is clearly struggling to cope with common day to day activities and it would be inappropriate for anyone to suggest that the content of the conversation he was listening to has anything do do with his struggles.
Mental health issues warrant professional intervention when people are unable to cope with day to day activities (inl. listening to political opinions). I really hope that Bill is able to access appropriate support.

Well if he is planning on ‘transitioning’ and got upset at the idea that reality will still exist, that’s hardly your fault. Much as I have some sympathy for him, I would be careful that you don’t let tears manipulate you into going along with the falsehood that people can change sex, as that would be a betrayal to actual women, including yourself.

That is not even remotely on the horizon of possibility, Perf.

(In fact I am sat here in my Posie Woman definition t shirt as I type! )

sat here in my Posie Woman definition t shirt as I type

😁

Funny how so few men get moved to tears by misogyny or violence against women and kids.

I’d have thought more are than are moved to tears by a discussion about transitioning.