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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

About to come out as GC on fb

18 replies

HidingFromDD · 19/10/2018 20:06

Help me get my message across. I fully support gender dysmorphic People getting the support they need, but have been reticent due to the issues with job, doxxing etc. I've had the discussions face to face but not sure how to post in a way that really explains the issues.

I've been concerned for a long time that the misogynistic factions are making things more difficult both for my daughters but also for the transexuals who just want to live in peace with themselves and others. How can I word this to really get the message across?

OP posts:
littlecabbage · 19/10/2018 20:11

How about posting the open letter from a group of transsexuals? And adding a comment of your own (I got flak for posting something with no comment)? Hang on, I'll find a link....

UpstartCrow · 19/10/2018 20:16

Dont mention trans people at all, talk about protecting womens hard won rights, and our need for single sex spaces and services. Support the third space option if someone brings it up.

HidingFromDD · 19/10/2018 20:18

I like that. Thank you.

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littlecabbage · 19/10/2018 21:05

Good luck. Remember, even if you don't get many "likes", there will be lots of people quietly agreeing with you.

HidingFromDD · 19/10/2018 21:17

I've done it. Posted the second link. Only liked by my daughter so far, but she's v clued up anyway (discussed a number of times)

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CisAndProud · 19/10/2018 21:44

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

littlecabbage · 19/10/2018 22:40

That’s great, well done. More and more of us are becoming brave on social media. Just because the consultation is nearly closed, doesn’t mean we shouldn’t continue spreading the word. So many people don’t know about this!

CaptainKirksSpookyghost · 19/10/2018 22:41

Well done

Voice0fReason · 19/10/2018 23:07

Well done. It's hard sticking your head above the parapet but it's important to do if you can.

XXcstatic · 19/10/2018 23:21

Well done. I struggle to be GC on FB because I have a childhood friend who is a transman. I know both he and our whole friendship group would be distressed by me commenting critically about trans issues - none of them have a clue about TRAs etc, as they are not on Twitter or Tumblr. They would think I was attacking our trans friend, and other sensible, rational trans people and - as they don't know the context - I can understand why.

But I am trying to be braver while staying sensitive, and am cautiously posting about women's sports without major problems so far.

HidingFromDD · 20/10/2018 01:06

Well, there's been no adverse comments, but I'm very careful about who I add on FB anyway and keep security settings tight. Sadly I advised my daughter to unlike the post. She's in her first grad job and deals with a lot of student bodies who she interacts with on FB. I'm fuming that she needed to do that and so is she

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selfidentifyinggiraffe · 20/10/2018 01:22

I was peaked ages ago. Brave enough to come out today on SM.

And fell out with two men. One who is just a mysogenistic prick and really gives no shit either way. One who is utterly lost and delusional and will support me in self identifying as a giraffe and afford me the rights of other giraffes if I go live in the zoo as opposed to suggesting I may need MH support for my delusional belief that I am actually a giraffe. No... seriously 🙄

LilyLiverMum · 20/10/2018 01:57

Hello, just signed up on here but been following these issues for a year, off and on, on Twitter and on here. With the consultation deadline tonight (which I know has now been extended) I felt compelled to put something on my FB a couple of days ago too in the hope that it may open one or 2 people's eyes and persuade them to complete the consultation. It was a daunting thing to do, but it seems to have persuaded a few people to do the consultation and (as far as I'm aware - I don't seem to have lost any FB friends or had any negative comments) has been pretty well received. Here's a copy and paste, feel free to comment/feedback (and to use if you think it could be useful):

Right, I’ve just watched “Feminists: What Were They Thinking?” on Netflix and feel like I need to SPEAK OUT. These amazing women fought so hard back in the 70s, when “Women’s Lib” was frowned upon and ridiculed, and their hard fought battles resulted in many of the legal rights and protections women in England & Wales have today. Yet, almost 50 years on, women are now at risk of a massive dilution of those hard won rights and protections. This may not be immediately apparent to everyone, because (a) it’s not being pitched as a women’s rights issue and (b) women who are trying to speak out about this are being silenced.

So – here goes. There’s a consultation going through Parliament at the moment – public responses close at 11pm on 19 October 2018, tomorrow! Time is short!! The consultation concerns reform of the Gender Recognition Act 2004. Not immediately apparent that this will impact women’s rights, right? The proposed legislative reforms are around people’s right to change “gender”, moving from the current process that requires a diagnosis of gender dysphoria + 2 years commitment living in the desired “gender” to self-ID. Self-ID means that anyone at any time will be able to change their “gender” if they feel like it by simply filling in a form, without any gatekeeping or legal & medical checks and balances.

This all sounds on the face of it incredibly inclusive and compassionate. Of course, trans-identifying people should have the right to live their lives how they want, with full legal protection from abuse and discrimination and with access to sensitive and appropriate services to support them. That’s not for debate, that’s a fundamental human right.

However, a legislative move to self-ID presents a direct conflict with existing women’s rights. Under English law, women have a number of sex-based rights, with good reason, as female-bodied people as a class have disproportionately experienced, from at least the time of Aristotle, objectification, exploitation, discrimination, injustice, oppression and violence due to their reproductive sex at the hands of male-bodied people. Male-bodied people are generally anatomically stronger than female-bodied people. Three quarters of violent crimesand 98% of sexual offences are committed by male-bodied people. 90% of sexual assault victims are female. Over 400,000 females are sexually assaulted in England & Wales each year. An estimated 85,000 women are raped in England & Wales every year. Women’s only spaces and services were introduced by law to protect females from these male-based threats, recognising that women as a sex are a disadvantaged, vulnerable group.

But if self-ID becomes law, a male-bodied person will be legally recognised as female purely upon his say-so. This will potentially give him unchallenged access to women-only spaces such as changing rooms, hostels, refuges, domestic violence shelters and prisons. Let’s be clear - he doesn’t need to have undergone any gender reassignment surgery or hormone treatment, he doesn’t need to look like a biological female, he doesn’t need to change a single thing about himself, but on his say-so and that alone - without any checks and balances whatsoever - he will be legally recognised as a woman. So the new law will allow male-bodied people who self-identify as female access to women-only spaces and services, spaces and services designated by law to protect females from the disproportionate threats we face from male-bodied people and which provide us with safety, dignity and privacy when we are physically vulnerable.

Wild accusations of transphobia are being hurled at women who are voicing their concerns about this. Not only is this untrue, unfair, hurtful and damaging, it’s also wholly undemocratic when the result is that women’s opinions around a significant legislative change are being shut down and cast aside. It’s not transphobic for women to say that they’re concerned about a legal change that will allow male-bodied people into their spaces without any gatekeeping. Women are not saying that trans-identifying men as a group are by nature predatory. The concern is the threat that predatory male-bodied people present to female-bodied people, a threat that is currently protected by law via the designation of women-only spaces and services. Predatory male-bodied people already go to great lengths to gain access to vulnerable women and girls, so self-ID is a gift to these men. A process lacking any objective evidence, gatekeeping or checks & balances is wide open to abuse by predatory men. As self-ID will allow a male-bodied person to legally access women’s spaces without undergoing any physical changes, how will women be able to distinguish between a genuine, harmless, trans-identifying male and an opportunistic predatory male who has abused the legislation to gain access to women’s spaces for nefarious purposes? It will be impossible to police – in fact, as a pre-emptive response, we have seen proprietors opening up female-only spaces such as changing rooms, youth hostels and swimming ponds to everyone, re-designating them as “gender neutral”. Prison services have also been pre-emptively employing self-ID in anticipation of the law changing – just last week “Karen White”, a male-bodied person with a history of sex offences who was moved to a women’s only prison because he claimed to identify as female, was convicted of sexually assaulting a number of female inmates (www.scotsman.com/news/uk/trans-prisoner-jailed-after-sexually-assaulting-inmates-at-women-s-prison-1-4813696).

In addition to the concerns around women-only spaces, there are other potential implications of this change in law:

Intimate care and contact

• Disabled and elderly women who prefer that a woman assists them with washing, dressing etc. won’t be guaranteed a female-bodied carer.

• Women who prefer that a woman does their bra fittings, smear tests, mammograms, midwifery etc. won’t be guaranteed a female-bodied professional.

• Trans-identifying male-bodied police and security officials will be able to perform intimate body searches on women.

Therapy

• Trans-identifying male-bodied people may be able to work as counsellors in women-only services and join therapy groups for women who have survived sexual abuse and assault, rape and domestic violence.

Sports

• Trans-identifying male-bodied people may be able to compete in women-only sporting events. Most sports are sex-segregated for good reason - the natural physiological attributes of biological males such as body size, muscle mass, lung capacity and heart size give them a competitive advantage. Without sex-segregation, what chance do women have of being top of the game?

• This is already happening. Last week Rachel McKinnon, a trans-identifying male-bodied person, won gold medal in a women’s world championship cycling event (www.cyclingnews.com/news/mckinnon-is-first-transgender-woman-to-win-world-title/).

Statistics and reporting

• Gathering accurate sex-based statistics is essential for monitoring crime, health and discrimination and addressing inequalities. For example, isn’t biological sex-based data critical for monitoring the incidence of certain cancers e.g. cervical, ovarian, breast, testicular and prostrate cancers? How can this be properly monitored if biological sex is replaced by self-identified gender in the data?

• Already, criminal offences committed by trans-identifying male-bodied people are being recorded as having been committed by women. This distorts crime statistics and makes it harder to address biological sex-based violence.

I hope that explains why the introduction of self-ID is a concern for women and why there needs to be further discussion, consideration and healthy debate - involving women - around the proposed legislative changes so that women’s rights are considered in parallel with those of trans-identifying people. It’s not transphobic to say and expect this in a democratic society. Our lawmakers are accountable to women as well as to trans-identifying people.

If you’ve managed to get to the end of this post and are concerned about the issues I’ve raised, then PLEASE do complete the consultation before 11pm on Friday 19 October –
consult.education.gov.uk/government-equalities-office/reform-of-the-gender-recognition-act/

It’s a pretty hefty and daunting document, so if you feel like you need some guidance (from a women’s rights angle) then the following resources are helpful:

womansplaceuk.org/wpuk-guidance-on-gra-consultation/#question-1

fairplayforwomen.com

8DaysAWeek · 20/10/2018 02:11

Loved that ^ thank you for sharing

LilyLiverMum · 20/10/2018 02:22

Thank you. It took me a long time to do, it's really hard to put something succinct and easily understandable - and with a vanilla palate - together on such a complex subject. I looked for something like this on the internet that I could share, but I couldn't find anything that was quite right (in terms of being simple and vanilla yet covering off all the issues I wanted to cover) so I decided to cobble something together myself. Those that commented on my FB responded positively and thanked me, so that's why I wanted to share - now the deadline's been extended to Monday then I thought others may be able to make use of it.

Needmoresleep · 20/10/2018 08:03

My experience is that men get sports and women get Karen White.

I wrote something on a former work group focussing on sport and was delighted thst someone I did not know followed up with a carefully worded but supportive comment. I had messaged thd administrator to say I was happy for it to be taken down if it was felt to be too political. He could not see why something about sport would be. Then messaged me with a link to a transwoman racing driver and asked if that was what I was worried about. Several likes from women including one who had heard womens hour.

The fact I was not battered gave me the confidence to talk out more. The word is spreading. If each of us convince five people, they can do the same.

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