Be Kind

[NoSquirrels]

I’m fed up of how fucking often this is the message to women.

Be kind.

On my Twitter feed people I know are retweeting Guides to the consultation by Stonewall and The Pool with comments like “please fill in this consultation, it’s so important for trans people - should a spouse be able to object to gender reassignment (of course not!)” and Phillip Pullman has tweeted that he finds the whole debate baffling but he’s drawn to the idea of “being kind” and his comments are filled up with “Kindness is always the answer”, “We just want our human rights” etc.

But women ARE ducking kind. We’re kind ALL THE TIME. And as soon as we say “Hang on, this is not actually a great idea for women - we support you trans folks rights BUT NOT IF THEY NEGATIVELY IMPACT OUR RIGHTS WITHOUT DISCUSSION we are harridans, awful bigoted human beings without an ounce of kindness and compassion for other people’s struggles.

The media has never seemed so misogynistic to me.

Men are NEVER told to “be kind”. NEVER EVER.

It’s fucking infuriating.

Vipers, Assemble!

Do we need a Mumsnet FWR Guide to De-Programming Yourself From Self-Harming Kindness?

This reminds me of when I worked with young people and the general approach was to be unquestioningly positive about their future plans to win x factor, make a living as a gamer or become a successful you tuber.

Yes.

......of course the difference is those things are at least theoretically possible.

It’s nust it starts so young. And feminists talk about that, but that’s all. The trans women who are women only talk about how unkind people are to them (subtext: men) and how fabulous the “kind, accepting women” are to them - how they embrace them and understand them and think they’re one of them.

NO THEY DON’T. They’re all like me - they want to be kind so they are, but they don’t fundamentally believe a man is now a woman. They don’t! No matter what they say they still think a trans woman is trans not woman. Mostly they’ve been privileged enough it’s not an issue to be “kind”.

Mumsnet FWR Guide to De-Programming Yourself From Self-Harming Kindness

YES!

I brought my daughter up to be kind.

It was only this summer, when we had to go to the police because she was being stalked and harassed that it struck me that 'kindness' means lowering boundaries. She had been too kind to tell his man outright that she wasn't interested, and when she tried he didn't listen. He understood that 'no' meant he just had to push harder.

If I could go back to the start with my daughters 'NO' would be the first word I would teach them. And I would tell them not to put others first.

I find it dispiriting how hard it is to overcome female socialisation to be kind- even when you are aware it exists. I am so annoyed with myself that I can slip back into this, especially when stressed or very tired. It takes so much mental effort to override it.
Any tips?

I literally had to stop and correct one of my DC recently as I was counselling them to ignore an upset and to concentrate on their own behaviour towards others because DC said something along the lines of “And if someone is horrible we should just be nice” and I had to back track and say NO - that is not what I mean. If someone is horrible to you you must say so, loudly and clearly. Do t be horrible to other people, do t copy that behaviour, but stand up for yourself- don’t be afraid to say that’s not nice. It’s insidious.

Yes yes yes! Thank you Nosquirrels for this post

I was getting very despondent last night on the newsnight post as I felt that though 'our' speakers were excellent - well informed professional, rational, not speaking over the other speakers etc, I think, to the uninitiated, the panel discussion was 'won' by Helen Blecher.

I say this because, whilst I appreciate she peak transed some new people with her 'feminine' appearance, I think she controlled the debate, continually bringing it back to the GRA administration .. more of the same .. la la boring procedures .. nothing to see here & managed to largely obscure the elephant in the room.

That 'elephant' for me is that the consultation is actually who gets to decide what a woman is (and that we'll just have to go along with someone else's 'feeling' on this no matter how preposterous)

H.B used underhand tactics such as mis-stating facts, dissembling etc but the main weapon was by speaking over everyone else - but in her soothing gentle voice which made it appear less dominant. It was a clear expression of male entitlement just as with Ben Cohen on Politicslive but done in a far cleverer way.

The tone was good ('kind', non threatening 'woman') but the tactics employed were anything but.

Whilst visually it worked for us, HB uses 'unkind' tactics wrapped up in a 'kind' voice to score emotional points

I'm aware I'm dribbling on (sorry - fairly new to all this and trying to feel my way through) and I don't know what the answer is. I'm not suggesting that we lie, do anything to undermine our credibility or be aggressive in any way but I do think there is an issue here. Am I making any sense????! Ahem ..

If you replace with ‘shut up woman’ it makes a whole lot more sense

I think it's another example of some people having a different dictionary to the rest of us.

I suspect fair and facts may have different definitions as well.

Deborah Tannen would say that perceived unkindness in women is heavily 'marked' behaviour tho' it's got to the point where any deviation from expected kindness/self-abasement is perceived as 'unkindness'.

Kindness is 'marked' behaviour in men and noticed from them but it's expected from women so doesn't distinguish us.

So, women perceived as unkind may fare badly in public perception unless we're aware that we're being manipulated that way. We have to challenge these assumptions in a non-confrontational way that will hamper our arguments but there's no obvious solution.

Kindness, of the sort that is mandated from women, actively harms us. It makes our boundaries harmfully permeable. Just Say, No!

To be blunt, fuck being kind.

No lies, no compromise

Mumsnet FWR Guide to De-Programming Yourself From Self-Harming Kindness

This would be the most wonderful thing.

Mumsnet FWR Guide to De-Programming Yourself From Self-Harming Kindness

This would be the most wonderful thing.

I think they've commissioned Bunbury to write it...

Absolutely. I agree. Be kind.

Be kind to domestic violence victims who need safe spaces to heal.
Be kind to rape victims who are unnerved by men in female toilets
Be kind to female prisoners who don't want to shower with be-penised rapists
Be kind to young girls starting to menstruate who need privacy
...
Oh, wait. They don't mean being kind to women and girls.

And my examples aren't even 'kindness'. Kindness would be a lot more than that. This should be the absolute bare minimum required to respect women's dignity and privacy. But hey, ho. What's that compared to validating a male-bodied person's feelings?

I am so fed up with this already.

As someone on here once said, No is a complete sentence:

DD2 is doing wonder at school - some of the homework was how to respond to people who are different - apparently correct answer was to be kind which I do understand no one want to be unkind to people who are different.

I gave her be polite and friendly unless their behaviour is scaring you then get away.

I was thinking more about family friends DS who has been the rare minority of mental ill people who is a danger to others – he’s violet to his family but it’s the public violence that usually gets him sectioned.

I thought I’d handled it really badly though pure fluke on a shopping trip we encounter two situations that helped with the difference.

Older children have friends from different backgrounds which I think is a good thing but they’ve been told by youth group workers they should make friends from different background and I got the impression is was less about religious and ethnicity and more about LGBT but the reason given was "how it looks".

Then I was left floundering saying you should pick friends on how they treat you and if you like them not on who they sleep with though having friends with different experiences is good thing - and felt back footed again.

Reminds me of the Mashes take on how not to How NOT to sexually harass someone
women – we all know where the boundaries are really.

I don't want children who are unkind to others but I don't want them in postion where others can exploit them.

Kindness, of the sort that is mandated from women, actively harms us. It makes our boundaries harmfully permeable. Just Say, No!

Thank you.

Mumsnet FWR Guide to De-Programming Yourself From Self-Harming Kindness

It is a form of self-harm isn't it.

My lightbulb moment was the TAMBA leaflet on coping with twins. It said to look after your own needs first as you are no use to your twins or anyone else otherwise (or words to that effect). Self-sacrifice is not the way forwards.

And this is legislating for kindness - absolutely ridiculous.

First lets start with the below list from StarsAndWater which is basic human dignity and not really just kindness!

Be kind to domestic violence victims who need safe spaces to heal.
Be kind to rape victims who are unnerved by men in female toilets
Be kind to female prisoners who don't want to shower with be-penised rapists
Be kind to young girls starting to menstruate who need privacy

Oops.. bold failed

Kindness begets kindness. Yes, and since I’ve seen absolutely no sign of kindness from the TRA side of this debate I feel no compulsion to be kind in return. I’m a tolerant sort of person, I genuinely believe in people’s right to be happy but not when it comes at such huge cost to women and girls, that’s a step too far even for me.

Kindness is more than a cage for women - when weaponised like this it warps us and makes us less than we could be. It harms us and the people around us. It's not even good for society.

Women and society are psychologically harmed by patriarchy's policing of our 'kindness' to others and any hint of unwillingness to sacrifice our wellbeing to it.

Our social structures would be more equitable and robust if they did not enforce the care and kindness of women. (E.g., the savings to the state of ruining the financial resources and resilience of women with caring responsibilities.)