'Readers respond to the Guardian’s editorial' shock horror

[amandadecabernet]

So I guess this is what they had up their sleeve:
www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/oct/18/transgender-rights-are-not-a-threat-to-feminism?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other&fbclid=IwAR2lc7WqnLm6vJIIxXTUpLKv8mTfsIBQh2mrb7sOKGS1oqM_N75BMg4zOm0

If you're doing research, KataraJean make sure you are fully empathetic when you do it. I hear that is the correct way.

Although, actually feck that. Can't be arsed to engage with it. It's a letters page to pacify a gobby lobby and sell a few papers.

I thought the whole point of gender identity measures was that they identified what you perceived your gender to be? So how could children who indentify as trans not indentify with their chosen gender rather than their natal sex. This strikes me as being a total non statement.

To be fair, all this is having a pretty bad impact on my mental health. Who says we can't play the same cards?

A gender identity measure surely means whether something is considered masculine or feminine by society - translates as some girls like trains and cars, some boys like dolls. I mean, how do you measure gender identity without resorting to stereotypes?

So boys who think they're girls have feminine interests and girls who think they're boys have masculine interests. Isn't that just the definition of transgender for children, which is always about stereotypes?

I think this might be the paper he's talking about
rcgd.isr.umich.edu/seminars/Winter2017/Olson.Key.Eaton.2015.pdf
Don't know if it's been debunked.
Article about the research here.
www.psychologicalscience.org/news/releases/transgender-kids-show-consistent-gender-identity-across-measures.html

I am absolutely empathetic- I genuinely want to know how and when this concept of gender identity (an innate sense of being male or female, entirely subjective) took over from sex as an objective measure.

So far I think, measuring gender identity seems to be about not only recording natal sex, but how the person identifies and what steps to transition that have taken. In other words, what acivilcontract says.

Measuring gender identity in children really does seem to be about how much girls, for the sake of argument, like the toys and games other girls like

It is about stereotypes - things ‘cisgender’ girls like... go to the cinema and ALL the adverts for girls’s stuff is pink, sparkly, wide-eyes, cute collectables which shows them giggling, and dancing - and NO girl has short hair. Ever.

Recent groundbreaking work has shown that transgender children respond to gender identity measures in line with their identified gender, not their natal sex. The idea that these people should then face a burden of proof is deeply upsetting.

I'm struggling to make sense of this but does it mean that children are happier when allowed to play with the toys of their choice and dress as they like? Because that's got nothing whatsoever to do with being transgender, it's got everything to do with being understandably unhappy if forced to conform to stupid gender stereotypes which are not in line with the child's own preferences and personality.

It can't be that, though, can it? How could an adult with a Ph.D. and an academic post not see that a little girl doesn't have to be transgender to like football and a little girl doesn't have to be transgender to want to have short hair?

Hugely bonkers, isn't it? Companies market toys at kids and tell them through specific marketing which ones they should want.

And some dopey parents think that something that arose from the cynical imagination of a toy manufacturer is the true expression of their child's inner essence.

Academics have a basic duty to design research with empathy for those in our society who are victims of discrimination.

This jumped out at me too. Academics really don't have this basic duty.

The first letter writer still doesn't get it. It's all me,me ,me,me.
I'm never going to blow up a plane but I don't mind going through security, safe in the knowledge that all my fellow passengers have done the same.

Where is the evidence that trans women transition to abuse girl guides?
Sadly, I'm sure this evidence will appear with time. It's not necessarily trans women who are the problem it's paedophiles seeing an opening who will use it to gain access to young girls. I don't see how this isn't totally obvious.

Guardian having an identity crisis?

Perhaps they should self identify as The Times?

And if there was a designated safe space for trans people to sleep, bathe, get changed etc, or services that were going to be provided by trans people for trans people, but then it was decided that we're all just people and we should do away with the old fashioned idea of gender - how would trans people react? Would trans women be satisfied with 'stop being misandric, not all men are rapists or thugs'?

Lol @ id as the times

All sectors of society contain a criminal element, and I don’t imagine transgender people are different in that respect.

Further to my previous post, what they are saying here is exactly what opponents to self-id are saying. The reason why we have sex segregated spaces is precisely because there is a criminal element in society, which when you look at the statistics shows that it is male born people who commit the vast majority of attacks on women.

Not all men are out to abuse women but abusers are generally male.

Again I don't see how this isn't totally obvious.

Academics have a basic duty to design research with empathy for those in our society who are victims of discrimination.

And here was me thinking the starting point for research would be a null hypothesis.

TigerDrank it seems to be exactly what you say

Someone else alluding to A List (to which gender identity adheres) but not providing it.

Seriously, if this List exists, can we just get on with talking about it (minus the Northern women thing) and we can put all of this nonsense to bed in 5 minutes?